Student Issues

Communities Blog
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I'm just gonna cut to the chase, I have applied to work as a junior web developer full time, I've been re-considering the whole university thing, mostly because of financial issues. Unlike the typical student, I have no social life, I can't afford one, I don't just go and blow my money, I even live at home because money is so tight. I don't want to go into too much detail about why money is tight, it's nothing stupid, it's just a bit personal, and it's not something I want to tell the world about either.

When I say I can't afford it, I mean if I keep going with the flow and not much changes, I'll probably have to take out an extension loan or even a bank loan. I don't like the thought of that one bit..... Again, I'm not going out partying and pi**ing my money & savings against the wall, I'm quite simply too poor for university at this moment in time. I also REALLY, REALLY, REALLLLLLYYYYYYY do not want to drop out of university, I mean it's only another year and I've basically finished this year already, I don't have to put much more effort in to pass the rest of this year.

Anyway, I'm in my second year of university, now in the ideal world where money isn't an issue, I'd keep doing my degree, finish it and then start working. But this isn't the ideal world, no s**t... I was wondering if it's possible to work a full time job 9-5 hours and study part time?

Also, if it is possible, how hard is it? - Keep in mind I don't exactly have much spare time as it is anyway, I mean when I have university, between work and travel, I normally get home any time between 8pm ~ 11pm. So spare time wouldn't be something I'd be sarcificing. I know it would take longer for me to be qualified, which isn't a nice thing to think about, but if I can work and study at the same time, then that would be the most ideal approach to my problem. But I don't know what part time studying is like, I don't know what sort of hours you study, I don't know how it works to be perfectly honest, etc.

Finally I'd like to ask for any advice. Has anyone been in my kinda situation? What have you or what would you guys do if you were in such a situation?

I put this under the blog category because I didn't know what category to put it under, this is a bit personal, and I doubt the majority can relate.

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I think it depends on how much it costs. I am personally paying around $3k/semester and working full time(40-45hrs) @$13/hr. I think my case is probably one of the worst since I also work at night but again. It's manageable. I can still do work, however I am kind of pressed on the fact that I really.... like really don't have a social life. I seriously don't have the time to talk to people outside of work or school. it's quite upsetting but I know what it's all for.

In my case approximately 1 week of work covers one course and I find it to be pretty optimal for the work I do. But again, it all depends on how much your university costs you.

If you are able to get a junior dev job @$20/hr and higher then I'd consider doing full time. But what you gotta keep in mind is that Time becomes literal gold. You don't want to waste time. I had to learn that the hard way. With school and work it's really tough to squeeze anything in between, so be ready to be kind of a slave for a few years. But you ultimately know that all you are doing is for something much greater.

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Yes, I did that pretty much from Spring 2013 until I quit my job this past October. Well, I should say I flip flopped between full and part time of each at various points, but still.

The two factors that really make or break doing it are:

  1. How are the school and work loads?
  2. How disciplined are you?

The most important one is probably the latter. Whenever I had work and school full time I had zero social life, but I committed to it and made it work. It wasn't fun, but my GPA is still adequate because of me disciplining myself and not slacking off. I wouldn't recommend taking more than two harder classes or three easier classes a semester if working full time, especially if you happen to be one of the poor souls that get sick and need to take time off frequently.

The other thing to think of, and I don't think many college students realize it, is that at a certain point experience trumps education. I know so many people that work in fields completely unrelated to their education, or lack thereof, because they happened to have experience. Fresh out of college with no experience and education will certainly matter, but a few years down the line and education becomes a bit more moot (still a good thing to have regardless).

Another thing is to see if any of the classes you need to take are able to be transferred in from a community college. Community colleges are a hell of a lot cheaper, offer the same or similar education, and often have more flexible scheduling. I did two years at a community college and am now in my last semester of two years at a university, and the community college was probably the wisest choice I made. Saved a fuckton of money since it was 1/3 the cost of the university and the instructors I had often had real world experience rather than mostly textbook experience like I've faced with some university professors.

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I've found a few things critical before making judgments in this sort of position. What university is it? Depending on tier, the debt may be worth it. Also, is there a way for you to get support through the university? Many take need into consideration for support. Also, what kind of thing do you want to do with it in general? IT support stuff can be shown through experience and past jobs, but bleeding edge research and niche fields for all practical purposes require going through a degree program.

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It's always better to have Uni as the No.1 priority if at all possible. But food and shelter need to come first. Have you gone to your uni with this? They deal with probably hundreds of students every year that suffer money troubles. They might be able to offer financial support or allow you to have a year or so out of uni where you can save up then return.

When it comes to working full time and Uni, you will probably struggle to do well in both. After all, they are 'full time' for a reason.
Also, what country/Uni do you go to? if you are in the UK there are normally programs or processes to try and help students suffering. But I don't know about other countries.

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That's where you're wrong. I've been working a part time job since I started college in fall of 2013. I have an Associate Degree but am going for bachelors now, but have to take this semester off because money was getting tight as well.

You can totally work a full time job, but then you won't be able to really take more than 1 class, maybe 2, at a time. So it will take considerable longer. However, if you get the job you're wanting to get --web development-- that you were going to school for, then you're doing pretty good. The point of going to school is to get the education to get the job you want. If you get the job then you don't have to go as hard to get that degree. You can do it in a more leisurely fashion; but keep in mind you usually need it to advance at the job.

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Just get a job and move out. Most of us managed to work full or part time while at Uni plus party most week nights and weekends. It's all about time-management skills. Don't waste your Uni years being stuck at your parents house, doing nothing but studying. Get out there and enjoy student life.

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not me lol. I work on weekends, but just get drunk with my gf and play games during the week.

I've only been to 3 actual parties the 3.5 years I've been going to school.

yes++;

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I would love to do that, but my financial situation isn't even as simple as that... Like I said, I'm currently working part time and most days/nights I get home at 8PM or later, I would love to actually enjoy life to some extent or another, but it literally seems near impossible, giving my circumstances. Even if I did move out (which I kinda can't, I don't have enough money to even entertain that idea), I'd without a doubt need a full time job then, just because of the fact that I'd have more bills to pay for, more of my own bills.

In all fairness, I am being vague, deliberately, a part of the major implication is exactly what I don't really want to talk about.

It is without a doubt my main priority as of right now, I can have fun once I graduate and can actually afford to have fun too.

This is exactly why I want to finish my degree, plus I've done the majority of it, it's just the final hurdle that's left now, kinda annoying, but that's life. I don't know how the education system works in other parts of the world, but if I left university now, I'd end up with a HND/HEDip. They're the same thing, kinda, HEDip is more academic, whereas a HND is usually considered less academic and more practical, more coursework and less exams sometimes time too.

Also for anyone who was wondering, I attend a university within the UK, Swansea University if that's of any use, it's meant to be among the top 20 for computer science in the UK or so they say. I've tried e-mailing one of my lecturer's about my situation, and he hasn't replied yet, I'm sure there's a good enough reason for it, I mean they're busy as hell, whether they're travelling somewhere for a conference or doing research, who knows?

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nah, some professors are just dicks.

By the way, some schools don't take into consideration that students have jobs. Not sure if yours is like that, but the University I am leaving does not give one flying fuck about students with jobs.

My personal favorite WTF moments:

"Oh, you work 3rd shift on the weekends? Gives out assignment on Friday, "Alright its due Monday don't procrastinate children".

That will be another 7 grand this semester please.

Well, looks like we oversold the student parking passes lot by 10,000 doesn't look like there will be enough spaces. Oh well, laughs.

We're buying all the athletes an iPad and hoverboard for no reason so here's this miscellaneous fee.

$Prof = Professor
$Me = Me

$Prof: "So I'm a procedural programmer, but I've been instructed to teach your OOP C++.
$Me: "What the shit".

A friend of mine who goes to HR because hes having financial issues, and they tell him that's he's too poor for them to help him.

America

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I never worked while at uni but I did have a close friend who worked at a kebab shop. If I recall he worked 7pm-4am three, and sometimes four, days a week. So about 27-36 hours a week.

He struggled and I think he was downright miserable fairly often. Managing his time was difficult and he still never really had any money. He was also burdened by some family problems which didn't help. He still passed the course in three straight years. Think he got a 2:2 or a 2:1. Probably worth pointing out that we were not doing computer science, I would expect the latter to be harder.

It sounds like you are in a really tough situation, if you can get a decent paying job that offers valuable experience a year out sounds like a good idea. You could probably continue studying part time and stretch your final year over two. Or you could just keep studying full time, but that might mean sacrificing grades, only you and your lecturers can really judge this.

If I were you I would investigate the universities services, talking to your professors is a good idea but there is certainly someone else who is more able to advice and explain all the options available to you. If you have a department secretary perhaps ask them to point you in the right direction. In my experience the secretaries are normally very helpful.

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What does this mean?

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UK grading system. It's pretty weird. From top to bottom you can get a 1st, 2:1, 2:2, 3rd. Otherwise you fail.

As far as I'm aware this system is used by all universities in the UK. I don't know if the actual pass mark is the same though. On my course you needed 70% for a 1st and only 40% for a 3rd. Which was really quite low. I've generally been told that if you get 3rd the perception from employers is that you got through by the skin of your teeth and your degree is worthless.

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well fuck thats way more forgiving then our system.

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My first essay in the first year I got 76% lol. And yet only 20-30% of students finished with a 1st.

Truthfully there were too many people on the course. Too many people who just shouldn't have been there. Too many people who couldn't be bothered. It's cruel to say, but 65% of my peers probably shouldn't have been at university.

But the university wants a lot of students because they want a lot of income. So I guess they need to make the pass marks lower. To their credit you have to really do something special to get 85+ unfortunately there is no grade to reward the hard workers. I had some work that scored in the 90s but I don't really have anything to show for it :(

Edit: A degree should mean you are something of an expert in your field but with a 3rd you are basically saying "yes I'm an expert in my field but I'm only right half the time". That always struck me as absurd.

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Sounds a lot like my uni, if you work or have any other responsibilities, they couldn't care less, they just wanna do their jobs. And you say that one of your friend's was too poor for them to help him, I fear that may be the case with me, I hope not, I'm trying to explore all possible routes I could take from here.

All I can say is, I envy you...

Sounds like me right now to be perfectly honest. Like your friend, I also have no time, but I also have no money...

May I just ask what you were doing?

Well the starting wage would be £21k a year, so that's not bad and it's pretty local to me, it's actually closer to home than my university campus, so that's pretty nice in that respect. But I shouldn't talk about it like I already have the job, I just have an interview, fingers crossed I do actually get the job.

That's exactly what I'd want to do, I don't care how long it takes, I really want to get my degree, but at the same time I can't afford to continue studying like this. I don't just mean I'm on my a**, I mean I'd probably wake up to find a negative number occuring when I check my bank account balance.

Funny you say that, if I were to work full time or even prat time where I'd be working during the day, that wouldn't work out too well because they track your attendance big time. There are scanners by the doors as you walk into each lecture room, you have to scan yourself in, if you don't then they'll send you an email saying how you have to see the head of year and all this BS. If attendance is still an issue then they just flat out kick you out, there's no other way around it sadly.

Right now that's what I'm trying to do but my lecturer's are useless in terms of responding to emails at a reasonable speed, before it took 2 weeks to talk to a lecturer about something, by the time they had replied to that email, the subject had become irrelevant.

I only partially agree with that, I mean some employers really don't care about the grade at all, ESPECIALLY if you have useful experience, I think it's fair to say that experience trumps education nearly every time. You only need the education to get further or to get in with a big company or something along those lines. I could be totally wrong, but as far as I'm aware, that's pretty much how it works?

Quick question, how does your system work then? ... To achieve 70%, it CAN BE pretty f***ing hard, apparently only like 10~30% (half depends on the course) of the students in university in the U.K. will achieve 70%+.

So true, the only places that recognise you for such hard work are places of academia, even then it's only highly prestigious places such as Oxford Univesity and such.

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for us 70% is the minimum passing grade for courses related to your major. Non dependent classes (classes that are not prerequisites), you can get 60% and still pass. It can be pretty hard here too, but I think your material is a little more difficult. There might be a handful of people who make A's while the rest are in the C range. Of course, it doesn't help when classes are designed to make students fail; like most math classes here.

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I guess you're right, our material may be more difficult but the marking system is much more forgiving, big time. I mean right now I'm doing a computational graphics assignment, I'm not enjoying how my lecturer wants us to do it, he has specified we need to do it in a very specific way. But he's trying to get us to improve already existing edge detection algorithms and stuff, I'm sure there's a way, but I doubt I'll find a way to improve on the pre-existing equations, I'm sure if it was easy, people would have already discovered it....?

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It was definitely the easier way. I was able to save quite a lot of money before i went to Uni but by the end of the third year i was totally skint.

Film. 50% practical, 50% theoretical. I chose the uni based on the option to shoot 16mm and the amount of practical work they did. The writing was as hard as you wanted it to be I suppose, lots of research required for the top marks and of course if you generally struggle with writing, a 5000 word essay will always be intimidating. I had already studied film at A-level so i found it relatively easy. The practical work was another matter, let's just say film shoots are ball breaking and not half as fun as people like to imagine. It was enough to help me get into the industry where I stuck around for a few years.

I'd say that's good! Particularly if you are outside London.

I really hate this nonsense. More and more seems to be doing it these days.

True. If you don't stick it on your CV many won't ask about your final grade.

Yes, depends on the course and the university and you can see the grades awarded nationally online (22% got a first in 2015). There is not a nationwide standard as far as I know which is why going to the right one can carry so much weight. 70% at Cambridge or Kent or Westminster do not all carry the same value on the jobs market.

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Yeah, I'm in the country side, like farmers left right and centre kinda thing.

So do I, I guess it's just an excuse to get more funding by throwing kids off the course so they have to either re-do a year or some other kid could take their place? - But they'll have already paid quite a fee to be there.

Apparently, one guy that works at Google as a software developer, he didn't even go to uni, he doesn't have a degree to this day, he just learnt the stuff he needed to know in his spare time. He then built up a portfolio, and he then aced the interview and has now been working with them for some time, just makes me think if a degree is really worth it in the long run. I mean from what I've seen, it's mostly useful to start you off, to help you get your first job, or that's the impression I've built up to say the least.

Of course, but it is without a doubt better to get a good grade from a university with a somewhat poor reputation than receive a poor grade from a university with an excellent reputation? I don't actually know which is better, I'm just assuming this is the case to be perfectly honest.