Star Wars - The Last Jedi - Dec 15, 2017 [Spoilers]

I really don’t care if the bad guys are mostly comprised of white people and the good guys are mostly comprised of a diverse set of people. They need to be brought down more than a few pegs.

BB-8 has feminine programming? Then why is she addressed as “he?”

There most certainly is a male Mary Sue…and it’s been around far longer than Mary. The term is however a derivative of Mary Sue. So yes, the term itself is sexist, however, the concept is a sign of bad writing. We can always change the name of the trope, but culture is very difficult to change and won’t change overnight.

I never connected Palpatine’s rise to power with Hitler’s specifically. He seemed like he could stand in for any number of dictators and tyrants. I see your point, but one cannot deny how these things apply today, tomorrow, and yesterday.

For instance, many of today’s dictators, tyrants, and “strongmen” have risen to power today not by coup, but by legitimate political means mixed with a little charisma and cunning. They also use crises to further consolidate their power, and they use fear, uncertainty, and doubt to maintain control over the people. Palpatine did these same things.

Other than the harsh environment of Geonosis, I’m not sure how it was inspired by the US War in Afghanistan. I’ll have to watch it again.

Lucas also said when the media was drawing parallels from George W Bush’s “…with us or you are with the terrorists” statement to Star Wars that the prequels were open to interpretation, and that the stories just represent how easily a tyrant can rise to power and just how fragile democracy is…so applicability.

I agree, applicability is better than allegory. However, an allegory can still have applicability. This happens every time anyone learns the author’s intent and says to themselves, “well, I still think it means/represents/symbolizes _____.”

Art is interpretive by nature. This is why it’s art and not science or math. That’s what makes art interesting. It would be boring if there was only one explanation/interpretation.

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Apparently BB-8 is female:

“Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy later referred to BB-8 as “she”, and reports from the films set, as well as some of the Star Wars publicity materials, suggested that the new droid was a girl (confusingly, puppeteers Dave Chapman and Brian Herring, who are responsible for operating the robot, have previously referred to BB-8 as “him”).” [1]

I didn’t know there was such a term as “Marty Stu”, thanks for posting the link :slight_smile:

You’re welcome! I didn’t know either, but I knew the idea wasn’t exclusive to female characters. It couldn’t possibly be. We’re typically more forgiving with the male variant though.

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After thinking about it yesterday, I can not remember if he said the entire battle was inspired by the war in Afghanistan, or if it was just the fighting in the sandstorm that was . He said it in an interview done by the History Channel as part of a special before the Revenge of the Sith came out. I need to find that interview again.

I also believe in that interview he said he wanted Lucasfilm to go to his daughter when he died. If it was not that interview, then it was in an interview that he did with Oprah some time latter.

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Makes sense, as Katie was being groomed for the responsibility. She wrote quite a few episodes of The Clone Wars.

Yeah, that’s definitely a point where people have to be careful. However, I’ve also read a while ago that female characters are often written with(out /less) flaws in order to not offend more extreme feminists. This somehow results in a double edged sword for the producers and consumers alike.

That being said, my wife and I still think that Rey is overpowered when compared to Luke or Anakin. For instance, Luke was struggling when he tried to move the lightsabre to him in the cave on Hoth. Rey competed against Kylo and won in TFA.

Still, it might be possible that new SW will always have stronger and stronger characters such that the old deed are shadowed and viewers are still amazed.

Well that would be ability inflation and would diminish the old characters’ abilities (which is exactly what they’ve done with the concept and physics of hyperspace travel). That’s an interesting theory. Do you have a link to an article about female character personalities and narratives being crafted to deliberately avoid criticism from extreme feminists?

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Unfortunately, I do not :frowning:

I may have been a bit harsh in this remark, as I have witnessed the damage mass media can do, and there have been studies done on it. Unfortunately, I can’t find the study or any articles about it. >_<

The goal is not to lower the status of white people, but to elevate the status of women and minorities to our own. If we are treated the same way minorities have been treated, we will only create an “Us vs. Them” mentality. Oppression isn’t ended by oppressing the oppressors.

However, I don’t think the fact that the First Order has been shown to be mostly comprised of white males is any kind of attack on the dominant group. It would really take an extreme affront for anything to be interpreted as an attack on white people, I think, simply because we hold so much power. The directors have just followed the established trends in the universe. The Galactic Empire was the same way, and the Alliance was also a diverse group just like these sequel trash factions are. This is just more unoriginal than anything. You’d think the First Order would’ve made some progress in this department, but I guess not. Even though they recruit minorities and women into the Stormtrooper Corps, they still seem very one-dimensional.

Oh the social justice warrior movie. How did that go?

Film producers and executives include what is going on during the time they are making the movie into the movie. So that’s why their is that social warrior aspect in Star Wars.

No I don’t want space fucks in my movie about space wizards.

When the original trilogy was out, Return of the Jedi did this very well by including another woman into the series with Mon Mothma and with the other minority species ( I say minority, because they are to me as they saw very little screen time ) playing a more crucial role in the trilogy. Before RoJ much of the credit of the Rebellion could have been attributed to the humans ( with Leia being the only minority human. Lando I would group in with the minorities in RoJ ) Chewi ( the only minority non human ) and droids.

As the Star Wars story grew so did the plot ( maybe the wrong word to use ) of increasing the role and status of women and minorities.

Ehh, it was a half-assed attempt, but times and expectations were different back then. George did make sure the diversity of the Alliance was better represented from a being and racial sense, but they were all minor characters. This kind of thing may have been acceptable back then, but it won’t fly today.

If you want, we could really get into a deep discussion about the social status of droids in the Star Wars Galaxy. I find their portrayal to be very interesting.

Who are the space fucks?

the sjw garbage

You’re being very vague. Could you be more specific?

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This! The problem is, elevating by force won’t really work in the end. I think it leads to even more separation.

Yeah, the Empire was pretty specisist afaik. So, everything non-human wasn’t very welcome.

I think I know what you mean by “elevating by force,” but can you explain that for the other thread readers? It’s a very delicate balance and when done wrong, it’s painfully obvious, but when it’s done right, you don’t see it at all.

Yes, the Empire was specieist. My problem with the First Order being the same way though is that it’s been done already. It would’ve been interesting to see that part of the culture changed from the Empire. They did that in the Legacy series. Although, I have other problems with Legacy.

Well, one thing for instance is if the government wants to create a men to women ratio for jobs in the technical sector, computer stuff for instance. I think the gender of a person shouldn’t increase or decrease the chances of getting a job. Furthermore, there are less women studying computer science than psychology. The reason for this might be the difference in they (were?) are raised as children, but only time will fix these issues.

I think they are the remnants of the Empire. Although, I have no information on them beside the awfully little that is provided by the movies.

This, and all of the “Waaaaah, I didn’t get any information about Snoke, or Phasma!” For the love of all that’s good and holy. The movie isn’t about Snoke, it’s not about Phasma, and it’s not about the history of the First Order.