It will be placed inside the sealed balcony, simply because I don’t want to have experience with mounting it on the outer side of a rented apartment, and fearing that during a storm it can be blown off (causing all sorts of damage).
So, going by the 15-80% of typical efficiency, I would be getting 100-200 kWh.
My scenario of usage differs a bit, focusing mostly on “power supply for the emergency power supply”(solar panel for a power station during a blackout). Making me think that spending somewhere to 800USD+ (taxes and stuff), I am not really making an improvement (my monthly power bill is less than 50USD). While I can get a Anker Power House 767 ｜ Power Ready for Anything - Anker CA for a 1000USD.
Thanks for clarifying the realities of a solar panel.
I thought of maybe fueling that battery with the solar panel. But it seems to produce much less output in terms of kWh if to compare it to the cost of a battery, which can provide a 6-8 hours (or 4, if I decide to play on my main pc). I would need 4 of those, not even thinking of how to maintain them, and even where to place (and have difficulties with wires, going from my balcony to the apartment (during a hot summer).
Using a solar panel, would typ. be a trickle charge, when compared to AC brut force
But of course, having that kinda alternate support, is [VERY] welcoming
Also the use of solar panel [should] assist, in offsetting [if not bypass] battery usage
You are right. But in a scenario, where one’s monthly electrical bill is 30USD, buying a solar panel for around 800USD just to generate 100-200w, is not really a good investment. And this is with an apartment, which, although, cannot be called “small”, but would be a task to solve in terms of where to put it.
In my neighborhood, there is one apartment, where a person mounted a solar panel (not the usual flat one, but an array of pipe-shaped) on the outside of a balcony. Although it looks cool, and most likely is of benefit, one of the farthest pipes (or even two) have suffered damage from weather or something. Maybe they are still functional, but they look really beat up.
And I can’t even imagine how to replace it - the array is maybe 15 degrees horizontally, and, although it is only the 2nd floor (imagine having it on 6th floor or smt). It’s been maybe 1+ years since it been damaged, and still nobody bothered to fix those tubes. Which is either a good sign of efficiency of the remaining… or the other way around.
Yes these are a bit pricey, between LiPO4 new enough and non-gimmick folding panels
But we’re buying on premise(s), of longevity and portability, along with the ohh-sh!t support
… A piped panel grid, is likely for a solar water heater [alternate to geothermal heat pump]
I do wonder how many times per hour that car would stop, and people would go outside to wipe sand of that panel.
Dunno. After buying smart plugs and ups’, which can show the realtime consumption by a press of a button, I got a better understanding of ‘what and when’ is actually consuming. As well as the real amount. A small feat, but comes a long way.
Although the investment versus profit is far from being equal, for what I see, I do like the idea of having a working pc+oled monitor being powered just by a single 400w (on a cloudy day, when it barely produces 150w). Yeah, not a money saver to say the least, but just a way to be less reliant on town’s power situation.
If we are including taxes and transfer fees, Germany is doing about as poorly as Ireland and Denmark. Unsubsidized solar with storage can be produced for ~€0.15 per kWh in both Germany and Sweden. Guess what households are going to install once they realize it’s cheaper to pay an upfront cost of €30k for 30 years than trickling €150 a month for 360 months?
In some countries in Europe, it is already cheaper to install unsubsidized Solar on your roof or balcony, than it is to pay the transfer fee. Sweden is one of them, where you can get a hold of a 20 kW solar panel system with a 20 kWh battery for below €10k now (with subsidies) and twice that (without). Doing the math, that equates to about €1k per installed kW unsubsidized for something that produces at least 800 kWh per installed kW per year. If you use all power you produce on that solar array (which you will not) for 30 years straight, that is about €0.042 per kWh. Even if half of it is wasted that’s still €0.085 per kWh.
Swedens transfer fees are at €0.045 at the moment with another €0.055 per kWh in energy taxes (using the inaccurate-but-mostly-good-enough 1€ = 10 SEK conversion). And by 2030 you can buy the same system for €5k in Sweden, unsubsidized. Biggest cost is already the labor to put it in, so it’s mostly ROT in either case.
Home solar with battery storage will just keep on growing, this is inevitable. And once it’s expected that every house has a home solar + battery solution, well…
First off, your graph is cut off.
Second, it only lists up to 2023, so a bit outdated already.
Third, it still shows a growing trend of decarbonization and Germany still does not have unreasonable electricity prices - just high ones, and a lot of that is due to coal.
First off. I linked the sources so no need to get upset about my screenshot.
Solar panels are definitely a way to produce electricity without making any emissions. The only problem is they all come from China at the moment. I don’t have a good source on the actual emissions from solar panel production, but my guess is that it’s not exactly clean.
I was in a bit of hurry when finishing that post, so do forgive my short answer - the graphs being cut off misses the legend so it’s better for transparency if you include the entire image for the discussion. But kudos for the sources though.
Of course they aren’t. Neither is EV manufacturing, or steel production, or virtually any kind of manufacturing. Even 3D printing release microplastics and metal fragments into the air. Currently, the net-zero on solar panels are roughly 3 years before we get back all energy that went into making them.
With regards to Carbon Dioxide, manufacturing of a 200W solar panel currently release about 50 grams of CO2 in the atmosphere. Said panel will then produce between 100 to 250 kWh per year for 30 years and no further emissions except for creating it.
Natural gas? ~400 grams per kWh produced, so we can see that the solar panel is already ahead after a single kWh has been produced. And that’s not accounting for mining and extraction of said gas, which is also releasing CO2 into the atmosphere.
Got the numbers here and they cite EIA as their source:
So while you are correct that we need to be mindful of the manufacturing carbon footprint… I don’t think it is correct to say that solar manufacturing release more carbon dioxide than just burning coal.
“Only” 78% or so, but I do agree that we need to ramp up production in Europe and the US.
And, with regards to manufacturing, a lot of the carbon emissions will be offset once our energy infrastructure is electrified and the coal, gas and oil fields are plugged. A lot more when we find out cleaner ways to create the same thing with new manufacturing methods.
It’s getting increasingly unprofitable to trade in fossil fuels, so we just need to accelerate the energy transition and that little problem should take care of itself.
It is a race on the clock though - will we hit the climate tipping points before, or after we can stop burning stuff as a species? I am optimistic that economics will make it happen, but if I am wrong, then humanity might not live to see the year 2200…
