Questions about supporting Tek Syndicate and Green IT (and bad grammar)

Level1Techs INBOX.deb
#1

(Everyone who cannot withstand terrible grammar and stuff, please go read the tl;dr)

First of all this is my first and plus I am not a native speaker, so please dont eat me alive (or at all).

I have been following your videos for a little while and ever since wanted to support you by buying a mousepad or a desk mat and or directly via patreon.

I did not do these aforementioned things yet, because of some questions/concens about supporting Tek Syndicate:

I stumbled upon the green wave surrounding the Fairphone, Shift-Smartphone etc. and while getting deeper into this green IT stuff I found this:
https://www.nager-it.de/en/maus
(a german company selling mice as fair as possible)

Or to be more precise this :
https://www.nager-it.de/static/pdf/en_lieferkette.pdf
(a graph showing which components and materials they achieved to make "green")

And finally an artikle about the circumstances of labour in many chinese companies which really made me think alot more about the whole "Made in China" thing:
https://www.nager-it.de/static/pdf/Yonghong_07.pdf

Then as I saw you (Logan) as a part of Dmitry's (HardwareCanucks) 2015 Edition of "Top 5 gaming mice", where you showed off your own prototype of what a Tek Syndikate mouse would look like, it struck me: I did not support you yet because I did not have enough trust in your products. Not qualitywise, but more about the workers putting all of yourproducts together.

I really like you guys and I want to support you as much as possible, but at the same time I don't want to support sweatshop labour by doing so.
So please show me, that the manufactury workers are treated the best way possible, even if this adds cost. I am willing to pay a fair price for fair working conditions. Please don't tell me its normal there, because even it it may be, its bad to work 15 hours a day to fullfill an unrealistic quota only to earn a fistful of dirt.

tl;dr:
Please speak to the workers and tell us what they say (or film it).
I would be willing to pay more if I can be sure that the people working for you in the factory are treated the best way.

Keep it up guys!

And yes, I already suspect that this ended up so poorly written, that no one could ever get what I am trying to say, but hey, at least I tried.

1 Like
#2

Ok quick update here:
I am probably never going to fund you.
What's the reason for that you ask?
Well I don't hate Logan, but in this video (https://youtu.be/KdZbMRrECgk?t=34m55s) he stated that apple had to be criticized for having the resources to stop the use sweatshop labor, but not doing so (and probably never will) while milking their customers by selling them said sweatshop products for a fortune.
This however is not my complaint and I totally agree with that.
However!
The thing that hit me like a truck was Lagan implying, the he would not have said resources or possibilities to stop such exploitation of workers, openly stating that all of his stuff was connected to sweatshop labor in one way or the other, but he could not do something against that.

Obviously he was talking about the stuff he is buying and using personally.
But at the same time the exploitation he loathes, this slave labor is what produces him mousepads, keycaps and Lexington jigger's.
I can't wrap my head around that "well I am not apple, so I can't do anything" argument.

Logan please, don't be a dick,
go tell your slavemasters to pay their minions fair wages now!
We or at least I would be more than happy to pay the premium of what such a product would cost!
You Logan have the same resources as Tim flipping Cook, you just have to go out and tell the Chinese companies that you are not like the other a§[email protected] and that you want them to stop whipping their workers.
For f%ck's sake!

Just Do it!

#3

Basically, you want epic pants to be empty because you want Logan to burn the few bridges he has built to allow us to have quality RTW/TS merchandise.

I'm sorry, no. I don't think that's appropriate.

A basic rule of commerce is that you can't force a company to work with you, unless you have the muscle to make them irrelevant. That also means that you can't force them to work the way you want to, with the same caveat.]

Logan and the TS crew simply don't have that muscle. And frankly, I don't think they ever will. You have to be ruthless and amoral to gain that kind of ground in any field, and that's simply not a compromise the TS crew is willing to make, as far as I can see. And that's a big part of why I (and many of the rest of us) follow them on YT or Vessel or here at ts.com, or fund them on patreon, or buy merch from Epic Pants.

TL;DR Life & business doesn't work that way. Deal with it. The alternative you are suggesting means no merch.

2 Likes
#4

You good Sir just struck my weakest point (sorry for being weird).
That is a very good point, which I did not account for.
Seems I have much to learn...
I really thought these companies at least somewhat give in to what their business partners want.
Do you really think they would just take the extra money for their own and leave the workers in the darkness?
Man this world is really fucked up.
Is there really nothing TS could do?
Are Industrialized countries the only ones housing fair work?

Ok you ended me rightly and I am now ashamed by myself and the world we live in.

I feel really helpless right now.
How can people accept that?
How can they ignore the dripping blood on... everything?

TL;DR Homo homini lupus

#5

Homo homini lupus indeed.

I understand and in fact, agree with where you're coming from. I'm sure @Logan does as well. Unfortunately, it seems to be economic fact that manufacturing moves to less advanced nations over time, and no, there's nothing we can do directly to change that.

Championing the cause of these workers, though, as a human rights activist... you might make some difference. Now I don't know if that's something you'd wish to do, just a thought. It wouldn't happen overnight, and it wouldn't be easy, of course. It's an option though.

I think that Logan will do everything he can to pick the best factories/manufacturers he can. I think he's earned that trust from us. And in time, if other groups (LTT, TB, Sterling, etc, even people like TBR) follow in that example, of picking better factories, it will have some effect. It won't solve the problem on it's own. For example, though, it could make it easier to get a job at one of these 'better' factories, allowing the workers some ability to improve their situation.

TL;DR I get it. But trust Logan not to just go for the cheapest manufacturer.

1 Like
#6

Thanks for the nice words.
Maybe I will indeed be able to move something even if it is not going to be much.
You made me confident again that if we all make small steps, there will be a change for the better.
Some day we will tame the howling wolves that haunt this world.
I am grateful to you.

1 Like
#7

Of course, man. We all must do our parts.

#8

if i am not mistaken @Logan has toured all of the factory's in china that supply epic pants products . and they are not sweatshops. some of the products used to create there products might be produced in a sweat shop we dont know nor do we have control over what other factory's use or do. we can support the factory's that dont use sweatshop labor and have working conditions that are reasonable. FYI look through all of your tech and find one item that does not have something produced by foxcon (bet you cant do it) . i dont like what some of the factory's are doing but not all of them are bad. i will support those that do not overwork and underpay .