Bf4 900p vs 720p, cod ghosts 1080p vs 720p, killzone 1080p 30fps/60fps multiplayer vs 720p for titalfall, I'm sure there are many other games that run better on the ps4. Please stop being a fanboy, they have the same cpu but the ps4 has fast gddr5 ram and the esram makes games look even worse, devs have Eben said so, you can say that cores matter because its the same fucking gpu architecture, same cpu but different ram which is better than xbones ram. Maybe if Microsoft disnt shove down the nsa spy master down consumers throats they could have put better parts in the xbone instead of forcing this stupid gimmicky casual market crap onto the consumer. Just because its not out doesn't mean we dont know how games will run becaus devs, publishers and the console manufacturs tell us how they will run.
Oh and ruse runs at 900p 30 fps, dead rising 3 720p 30 fps lol. They should have named the xbox 720P.
Thank you, I was starting to get worried that I didn't know what I was talking about. So glad my brain still holds up to date information.
What I have been trying to say is the AMD APU's are built from the ground up as GPU's. GPU's can ptrocess the same data as a CPU. This is why we see Bitcoin mining, Folding video rendering using the GPU in systems. What AMD did was cut out the CPU, Design a GPU that sits in a CPU socket and do the job as both. The intel CPU's are technically APU's but of a total different architecture. They have a dedicated GPU built in. But their first and foremost a CPU. That is why AMD APU's outperform Intel HD Graphics.
Yet here we are arguing the definition of APU when its not something set in stone. It is something that is CHANGING all the time while Assassin is stating that eSRAM makes games look like crap (Complete bullshit and has no coalition) That Devs dont like using it which is completely false as eSRAM runs in the background. Devs dont touch it. Its like saying using a HDD over an SSD makes games look crap.
Crytek have fully indorsed microsofts new in house hardware stating it seriously increased the overall performance of the system. I am not stating that the PS4 does not have a more powerful APU. Far from it. What im trying to point out is that it is not all about the APU. There are other things that have MASSIVE differences on the performance of a system. Did anyone even watch this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGlnnMNuEHk
We know that faster ram on an APU = better performance. Thats why Sony is using GDDR5 memory. While Microsoft is using DDR3, eSRAm combo. And while the eSRAM has a very low bandwidth it is so bloody fast it can throw around data like a monster. We do NOT KNOW the true effects of this ram and how it is implemented but we do know it will have an effect of the performance of the APU and the overall performance. Not to mention all the other things I have mentioned in a previous post that everyone completely ignored like the xbox CLOUD taking load off the APU.
I am not an fanboy. I own a high end PC with a 4770k, I am looking at investing in another system for entertainment purposes using an 8350. The first consoles I ever owned was a PS1. The second was an Xbox 360. third a wii and forth will be an Xbox One. Forth? A PS4 because while I love the EXCLUSIVE games on the xbox, there are a few here and there that I want to play on the PS4. And you know what? The only games I will play on those consoles are exclusive titles and I do not CARE about the performance of the systems because it does not matter what the games look like, Its about the CONTENT. Any game that is comparable on the PS4 or Xbox one I will not be playing because I will be playing them on my PC.
Now Assassin decided to bring the NSA into the argument. Stating Microsoft is shoving NSA shift down consumers throats. You know what? The only thing that worries about the NSA and other spying agencies is my research into things that interest me. No doubt my network is being monitored by the US government, NZ government, and Australian government plus many more but I have some news for you. Governments have been spying on people for years before you were even born. Every country you visit, there is a record of you. There are cameras everywhere. Hell at work this week we had police come in asking questions about a customer who showed up on the companies private security cameras. I dont like it. Not many people do but to use it in an argument about consoles is completely off topic.
The fact that you guys can not read into what I say and just aim to disprove irrelevant information makes me not give a shit. I am buying what I want, The next person is buying what they want. Just stop bashing something you prefer not to buy because it is all down to PREFERENCE.
Good Day
while that is was amd is working towards with hsa, current and past apus are 2 seperate componants on the same die, 1 half k10/bulldozer/piledriver 1 half gcn (i'm not sure what the k10 apus used)
unless were speculating on what the consoles will have, they probibly will have hsa chips
If you read the article, or did any actual research, you would know that it is a CPU that INCLUDES a GPU.
Sony is stuck in the past, by denying computer users access to run any of their games they are eliminating the majority of their potential market, ultimately I think it comes down to DRM (Digital Restrictions Management), they don't want to loose controll, they want a nice walled garden which they own, but I don't think this is the way forward for console gaming.
The only reason Microsoft doesn't do the same with most Xbox 360 games is because they also own windows.
Also, Every console is locked down by default, and has exclusives.
So your attack toward ONLY Sony is pointless.
+1 @ Phantom
I did do research. I can not find the teardown article I found a few weeks back but I am talking about the new consoles. I never post things without looking up the information first and if I can not find that information again, I only post it if I have faith that I remember but I admit, My interests are not in APU architecture and therefor my knowledge is limited but I do remember reading that the PS4 and Xbox one run the same architecture as the 290. Just heavily cut down. And I do remember that article stating that while the APU in the PS4 does have a dedicated CPU, It still uses the same GPU architecture for the CPU. I also read that Xbox Cloude will free up CPU resources to be used for GPU calculations. From what I understand. The new consoles have a CPU and GPU core but they are theoretically because both are the same architecture and and share resources at least on the xbox with each other.
Now I am not going to argue to point of whether it has a dedicated GPU in the APU or not because that was not the POINT of my post. My post was about the PERFORMANCE and how the XBOX has DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGY to SUPPLEMENT the less powerful APU.
The only person to mention anything other than the APU is Assassin and all he said was eSRAM is shit and firmly believes because the APU in the PS4 has more cores its 50% more powerful. Which is absolute bullshit and the point of my argument.
Let me repeat. I do not want to argue the architecture of the APU's. I am arguing the idea that the PS4 is 50% more powerful than the Xbox one which for some reason everyone one believes. and let me repeate again. I am not a fanboy. i will be getting both consoles. I own consoles from both companies and love them both.
I am not stating that the xbox is more powerful. I am not stating that the PS4 is more powerful. I am stating that at this current time we do not know where they stand against each other which people refuse to even acknowledge.
HSA Architecture is what I was trying to explain. It does have 2 dual cores. The majority of the processing passes through those cores and are done on the "GPU" so to speak. I think labeling CPU and GPU is wrong which is where an obvious misunderstanding has occurred. The goal is that the CPU cores are used for legacy software (Stuff that the GPU can not process) and the majority is processed on the GPU so to say. In the new consoles from what I understand have a portion of the "GPU" is labeled as the CPU and the 2 dual core modules act like threads for the stream processors in the GPU.
While the "GPU" Module runs the same architecture as the new AMD GPU's, the modules run in such a configuration that I believe they should not be labeled as GPU's. Reason for the name Accelerated processing unit which for you to understand my methodology is a GPU that supplemented with cores running as data pushes or threads dividing the information to collection of stream processors. The x86 architecture that is built into these APU's do very little calculation and act as a pass through to the GPU.
The GPU should not be labeled as a GPU because while it is of the same architecture, It does more than a general usage Graphics Processing Unit.
Wait, are you comparing the systems using Killzone and Titanfall? Those games are on completely different engines and by totally different developers. You can't really use two different games to compare the systems like that. Titanfall is on a heavily modified version of Source. That engine is very outdated. Granted they have done extensive work to make the engine look modern, and it's probably light years ahead of Valve's most recent build, but they probably still use a lot of Source's traditional optimization methods to optimize the game. Source can be a total bitch to optimize. I know from experience with the SDK.
Basically, Killzone could be far better optimized than Titanfall. It depends on the engine as well as the developers. That's why not every Unreal Engine 3 game performs the same. For example, Arkham City is superbly optimized, while the original Mass Effect, which doesn't look nearly as good, runs like crap. Both games are on UE3. If Mass Effect was Xbone exclusive and Arkham City was PS4 exclusive, you couldn't compare the performance of the systems because Mass Effect only ran at 720p while Arkham City managed to run at 1080p; even though they're on the same engine.
Anyway, if the PS4 really was 50% more powerful, do you honestly think Microsoft wouldn't realize this and be stupid enough to release the Xbone that underpowered? Hell no. They would delay it until they got the Xbone running damn near on par with the PS4. At the least. I say we just wait until both systems are out and people really tear them apart to see what's under the hood before we make any real judgements.
+1 @ Phantom
E.g. We haven't had any Halo games released on the PC since the second, mainly because Bungie didn't wanna do another PC release. Pretty sure that means SONY isn't the one cutting games off from the PC market.
Another example is the to-be-released game, Destiny, ironically also developed by Bungie, which is releasing on only the current and next gen consoles.
It is in-fact the developers choice (or the publishers choice depending on whether or not they muscle in on the action due to contracts, etc.) as to whether or not they release the game for PC, Xbox, Playstation, Wii U or whatever the hell they wanna develop it for.
Agreed. The only reason why consoles have exclusives is for people who would only buy a console for the games they cant buy on pc or another console.
I don't understand why you are mentioning microsoft and the xbox360, this is a thread about sony and the PS4, not about microsoft, or the last generation consoles. Yes sony is a hardware company, but they are also and entertainment company, a distributor, a publisher and a music studio.
And really is the point of Playstation to sell their hardware, or is it to make money, because if it is the later I am not convinced that locking people down exclusively too their proprietry hardware at the expense of locking out so many potential customers is the way to go.
I feel that they have kind of addressed that to an extent during one of their presentations when they were talking of making playstation into more of an experience than a box in your living room, when they discussed the idea of streaming their legacy games to tablets, and phones etc..etc.. Whilst it is true that it is the little box that allows them to charge a fee for every game sold, opening up the Playstation environment to other platforms and a much larger customer base won't change that, indeed the games will still run in the playstation environment which will probably involve some sort of subscription fee. This new generation of consoles makes it easier for console platforms to do this because of the reduced differences between consoles and PCs.
Also these console divisions are not very profitable (often running at losses historically speaking), by opening up their products to a larger market and spreading the fixed costs over a greater number of customers they could help change that, becoming more of a services company which is really what sony should be. Do you think sony sells TVs so people can watch football, no they sell people TVs so they can buy a bluray player(which uses sony technology), to play bluray movies (which sony makes money off), sometimes published by their own studios. Or to plug your sony console in (which were initially sold at losses untill this generation), to play your non-sony games on, but arguably mor importantly to put a DVD player, or a bluray player into every family house, which sony gets a cut off at every stage. Why do you think they are making their console into what is basically a HTPC, an entertainment box. Face it sony is a services company first and a goods company second.
The whole thing between HDDVD and bluray, between microsoft and sony making their consoles into service devices is about a war for the controll of the distribution of media, and therefore a cut of the entire entertainment industries pie. You think microsoft released windows 8.1 to sell a new os, or windows phone to make money on an os, no it is about there windows store, about controlling the way in which we consume media so that they can make money. Bassically they are trying to do what apple is doing, only they are all doing a terrible job, they need to create a more unified experience across devices, to improve the way in which devices work together.
Most of your post had nothing to do with my reply.
I don't understand why you are mentioning microsoft and the xbox360, this is a thread about sony and the PS4, not about microsoft, or the last generation consoles.
I was simply stating that it isn't Sony, or only Sony that locks down things, like you seem to think in your previous post.
Someone needs a chill pill.
And really is the point of Playstation to sell their hardware, or is it to make money, because if it is the later I am not convinced that locking people down exclusively too their proprietry hardware at the expense of locking out so many potential customers is the way to go.
Tell me how Sony would make money if you didnt buy a Playstation. Sony is not a publisher. They are a license company, and need things to licence to. That statement is completely wrong, and defeats your own words.
Also these console divisions are not very profitable (often running at losses historically speaking)
No, If sony were to put out a branch of PC games, (Which it CANT, because Sony is not a PUBLISHER) Then less people would buy the PS4, and they would get LESS money.
Do you think sony sells TVs so people can watch football, no they sell people TVs so they can buy a bluray player(which uses sony technology), to play bluray movies (which sony makes money off), sometimes published by their own studios. Or to plug your sony console in (which were initially sold at losses untill this generation), to play your non-sony games on, but arguably mor importantly to put a DVD player, or a bluray player into every family house, which sony gets a cut off at every stage.
Again, Sony is not a publisher. They don't make money from creating blu-rays. And they don't sell TVs just so you buy a Blu-ray player, because even Blu-ray now, is becoming obsolete. And if Sony wanted to make more money from a Blu-ray player, then the PS3 and 4 would NOT be playing Blu-rays.
This post gave me an aneurysm. Where are you getting these horrendous facts from?
Why do you think they are making their console into what is basically a HTPC, an entertainment box.
Are you sure you aren't talking about the Xbox One here? I think you're confused. Xbox One is the one most like an HTPC.
Face it sony is a services company first and a goods company second.
Uhm. This is exactly the opposite of what you were saying before. Please get your facts straight before commenting.
And I mean FACTS. Not some Tinfoil hat theories about why the "Man" is keeping you down.
Frankly I don't care what you reckon you were stating, you were attacking me on the basis of not mentioning Microsoft and the Xbox in a thread about the PS4 and that is ridiculous.
As for monetization the platform owner receives about 10USD per game, they receive money from their network (PSN, XBOX) subscriptions, they also receive money for game updates rolled out over their networks, however with digital distribution they could lock in the retailers share of sale price. Whether you brought the Playstation version of the game and played it on a computer (through the playstation platform) or whether you played it on a PS4 would make no difference as far as them making money. Additionally streaming services would probably have some sort of use based charge.
Given that differences between consoles and computers are much less in this generation it shouldn't be too hard for them to have designed their engine in a way to allow for either porting (and or a combination of) or running their games on a computer. No one is suggesting that they make PC games, just that they don't restrict their playstation platform to a small propriatery box that eliminates a very large proportion of consumers. Yet you attack me on this basis, which again is ridiculous because I never said that they should do such a thing.
Sony Corporation..which is engaged in business through its four operating segments – Electronics (including video games, network services and medical business), Motion pictures, Music and Financial Services.[7][8][9] These make Sony one of the most comprehensive entertainment companies in the world. Sony's principal business operations include Sony Corporation (Sony Electronics in the U.S.), Sony Pictures Entertainment, Sony Computer Entertainment, Sony Music Entertainment, Sony Mobile Communications(formerly Sony Ericsson), and Sony Financial. Sony is among the Worldwide Top 20 Semiconductor Sales Leaders and third-largest television manufacturer in the world, after Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics.
In other-words yes sony is an entertainment company, and most of those entertainment divisions are service orientated. To say that sony just makes hardware and the buisiness stops there in the way you have been implying is stupid.
The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) is the industry consortium that develops and licenses Blu-ray Disc technology and is responsible for establishing format standards and promoting business opportunities for Blu-ray Disc. The BDA is divided into three levels of membership: the Board of Directors, Contributors, and General Members.[1]
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Forum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Sony_Computer_Entertainment
This post gave me an aneurysm. Where are you getting these horrendous facts from?
And I mean FACTS.Not some Tinfoil hat theories about why the "Man" is keeping you down.
And thanks for bassically calling me a retarded idiot, a conspiracy nutter and a liar, I can add this to the list of insults you have thrown at me.
Frankly I don't care what you reckon you were stating, you were attacking me on the basis of not mentioning Microsoft and the Xbox in a thread about the PS4 and that is ridiculous.
No, I wasnt "attacking" you. I stated that it wasnt only Sony that was doing it. And if you didn't care what I "rekon" I was stating, then don't reply to my post? Pretty simple, actually.
Whether you brought the Playstation version of the game and played it on a computer (through the playstation platform) or whether you played it on a PS4 would make no difference as far as them making money.
That is wrong. Again, Sony, or Playstation, does not MAKE the games. If the games were released on PC, It would NOT be the "Playstation" version. It would be the PC version. Then steam, origin, or some other 3rd party would get the money that the developers did not.
it shouldn't be too hard for them to have designed their engine in a way to allow for either porting (and or a combination of) or running their games on a computer.
We have shitty console ports of games as it is, Mainly Every "Games for windows live" Game out there. We don't need more "Console" ports. We need Games specifically made for the PC.
No one is suggesting that they make PC games, just that they don't restrict their playstation platform to a small propriatery box that eliminates a very large proportion of consumers.
You suggested they make PC games a couple of quotes ago. "Whether you brought the Playstation version of the game and played it on a computer (through the playstation platform)"
And Why the hell would Sony bother making a console, if its games worked on other consoles or PCs? That makes no sense. At all.
Yet you attack me on this basis, which again is ridiculous because I never said that they should do such a thing.
"And really is the point of Playstation to sell their hardware, or is it to make money, because if it is the later I am not convinced that locking people down exclusively too their proprietry hardware at the expense of locking out so many potential customers is the way to go."
Yes, yes you did.
In other-words yes sony is an entertainment company, and most of those entertainment divisions are service orientated. To say that sony just makes hardware and the buisiness stops there in the way you have been implying is stupid.
I didnt say they didnt make anything software related. I said they were a licencing company, not a publisher. They help with a few projects, but are definitely not considered a "Publisher". They buy other peoples work and put their name on it. They HAVE published a few things in the past. Most have been failures.
The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) is the industry consortium that develops and licenses Blu-ray Disc technology and is responsible for establishing format standards and promoting business opportunities for Blu-ray Disc. The BDA is divided into three levels of membership: the Board of Directors, Contributors, and General Members.[1]
That's relevant, how..?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Sony_Computer_Entertainment
Those aren't games published by Sony. That's a typo. Actually CLICK on any game on the list, like, say, Jack and Daxter. That game was published by Naughty Dog. Not Sony. That link is not credible.
And thanks for bassically calling me a retarded idiot, a conspiracy nutter and a liar, I can add this to the list of insults you have thrown at me.
You're welcome. And thanks for trying to pull out the "Sympathy" card, and running to your parents, instead of actually proving anything. Prove me wrong, and we will talk about it in therapy. When you post unfounded ranting about something you obviously don't know about, you can bet I will put you in your place.
There's more to getting an OS on a piece of hardware than the fact that it's X86-64 hardware.