Potential New Machine: could a sandy/ivy bridge dual socket worksation be viable for me?

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Background:

While I already have a mostly adequate laptop, it has temperature and stability issues, along with poor Linux compatibility, causing me to look into desktops to replace the laptop for desk use, since it will still handle portable use fine.

However, to my mind I can’t just get something equivalent to the laptop, as there is no point in getting something new unless it either does something new or improves on the old performance.

Current Thoughts:

So I have been on ebay recently, looking at older workstations. The ivy/sandy bridge dual socket models seem to have a good price for what you would actually get with them.

I am currently thinking that a dual 6 core configuration would be my best choice, provided I can get a per-core performance similar to my current laptop. If possible, this would mean I would have a substantial performance increase for multitasking/vms (question about vms on these platforms to come below), while not losing performance for gaming (with an upgraded gpu fitted of course)

However, the possibility of good vm performance brings up another point/question; Is PCIE passthrough to a vm possible on this type of platform, and if so, should I consider tailoring the system for it?

Options:
[uk]
There are two main options for a second hand workstation that I have found: Lenovo c30 or HP z620. The Lenovo c30 seems much better priced than most hp z620s, but does generally come with two lower end cpus, however I would probably want to replace the cpus in any system with higher end v1 or v2 xeons (aiming for 3+ GHz sustainable clock during heavy use, to not suffer much loss in single thread from my existing laptop) (any machine with v2 should be compatible with both generations, similar to haswell/broadwell?)

The lenovo c30 does appear to have one major disadvantage compared to the hp z620: It will be much harder to fit a decent graphics card for 3d use, due to the very low profile height above the pcie slots. This would require finding a card no taller than a pci slot cover, and with power ports on the back rather than the top of the card. The power supply may also not have outputs for a graphics card. c30 units with 16G of ram (win7 is most common os bundled) seem to go for ~£300

HP z620 units are more expensive generally (~£550), but have space for easily fitting graphics cards (either 400ish or 800ish watt power supplies). The cpus in them will have a little more resale value, but are probably not good for my workload, and most are v1 only. A sort of card is used for a second cpu, so these would have to be bought with two. I think the lenovos would only require a cooler to fit a second cpu.

Xeon E5-2609v2 are the processors I have found c30 units with, and would certainly need replacing (default cooler cools up to either 130 or 160 watt cpus).
HP units I have seen with processors like Xeon E5-2620, which would still need replacing, but I have no idea about the cooling limits.

I can buy Xeon E5-2667 for ~£50 each, which would be suitable for either system type, but most second hand xeons I have found have a piece of blue plastic around the heatspreader, can it be removed? (like in this add, not one I want to buy: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matched-PaIr-Intel-Xeon-E5-2670-V2-2-5GHz-10-Core-25MB-SR1A7-Processor-/142720178694?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10)
Along with the above, I have found E5-2667 V2 (@~£240, probably for a pair), E5-2630 V2 (@~£100 each), what do you guys think?

If I go for a new system (one of this sort), GPU would most likely be either gtx 1060 6G or RX 580 8G, which seem to be reasonable prices. I already have a 512GB SSD I can probably take from my laptop (it is storage drive, not boot) for a boot disk (only in that machine just now so I can actually use it for something)

My budget for a system (minus GPU and storage, but with any CPU upgrades) would ideally be max £600, <£520 would greatly increase my chances of actually being able to go for it.

So what are you guys thoughts on these system ideas? Any replies with opinions on my rationale and answers to my questions would be much appreciated!

This kinda became a mammoth post, sorry for your brains if you had the bravery to read it all :stuck_out_tongue:

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I’ve looked at the likes of bargainhardware.co.uk before.

At work we’ve used hp z420/440/620/840 , generally they’re high quality, quiet well supported when it comes to firmware updates until their eol. But I don’t think their prices second hand or at regular retail prices make much sense for home use.

A pair of 2667v2 (3.3/4GHz) for $240 might be interesting.

For about the same money, you could get a pair of 8-core 2670s at 2.6, or you could get a single 8700k or a 2700x , both have better IPC, higher clocks and are likely to use less power. Individual core speeds of these newer CPUs are likely to contribute more to your day to day than pure core count. Both 8700k and 2700x allow you to use modern chipsets and motherboards which will make it easier to upgrade.

Your baseline should be how much would it cost you to build a similarly performing system new, -XX% on the price for the fact that old platform it doesn’t have the latest and greatest features.

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For gaming dual-processor systems are bad, too much latency. It may be possible to isolate the cores of one processor for the VM though. Keep in mind also Spectre and Meltdown, an old system, with possibly no support left for the BIOS, would be vulnerable.

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My desktop uses an i7-3820, does everything I want it to. Based on my personal experience, sandy-bridge ought to be enough for anybody.

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For multi tasking my bro recommends (he configures hw and sw systems for a living) LGA2011, specifically:

His reasoning for RAM is coz it’s much cheaper.

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Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions guys

I am working on pricing for a reasonable new system, but currently just can’t see it being a good choice, the ipc and clocks would be higher, but I am working with 3.4GHz (max) haswell mobile just now, and find the single core performance pretty good, but do tend to max out all cores quite easily. I don’t know how I would feel about decreasing a core gain to 8 rather than 12.

As for spectre, meltdown and all the many cpu bugs, I’m pretty much screwed by them anyway, as my newest hardware is haswell, with no chance of any updates on anything but maybe my thinkpad t430s, so I don’t know if it is even worth considering that in my decisions (and I use linux anyway, is there not a kernel patch for that?)

I would plan to isolate cores for games if dual booting or using a VM (still don’t know if pci passthrough is viable on sandy/ivy bridge xeons) if the latency was ever a problem, so I don’t think I would have much concern about it.

I forgot to mention in OP that about the most demanding games I would play on a system are probably Overwatch and DiRT Rally, currently at 1080p, but would love to move to 2560x1600 if I find a good monitor deal. As for the reason I would want >6 cores, I do CPU bound image processing, and would like to have less time taken by compiling my software (and running vms to compile to all my target platforms)

Any machine I get now would probably be retired as a server if I replace the machine with another down the line (ability to last 5 years would be nice, but not required). ECC ram would be nice for this, and general reliability, and I think DDR3 ECC would be less effected by the crazy RAM prices (last time I bought hardware for a pc, 8GB DDR3 was £40)

What modern features would I want to make use of? All my kit just now (and looking like the future) is a max of usb 3.0 and SATA3, which are the only improvements I can think of just now in new platforms.

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Why not save for TR platform? Obv much more expensive.

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Looks like a pretty good idea, unfortunately, here in the UK, anything second-hand, standalone and not in a system (other than the cpus, and ecc ram) seems to be crazy overpriced, especially modern equipment (hence looking at this age of system if buying older stuff, and the systems that are complete), but I agree on the RAM for both price and reliability bonus.

The problem with higher end older components here is because of the recent popularity of pc building, high end systems, etc, people tend to try and oversell old workstations/servers (general high end stuff, for the “Look, I got cores and GHz now” factor) far more than they would oversell old sff office pcs, at least the enterprise grade things don’t suffer as much from this as the high end consumer components/systems (people seem to try and sell them at no less than 1/2 and more commonly 3/4 of the price new).

Those parts you linked though seem similar to what I would get from the workstations I listed in OP, suggesting that I may be on the right track if I want to buy a new system.

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While a TR Platform is my ideal choice, the expense is just too much. I would have to have a way to make a serious amount of money from a purchase to want to spend any more than £1000 total on a very good value PC.

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Bro also said he’d get R7 1700 for the budget you mentioned.

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R7 1700 (200 pounds) + x370 board (100) = 300

  • case + psu + ram for 300 … :confused: Maybe doable.

But no way it can compete with a pair of E5-2667v2 CPUs (each with 8c/16t at 3.3GHz/4GHz) and DDR3 server ram is cheaper too.

Electricity is around .14/kwh in UK so 130W savings on the CPU is only around 100 pounds a year.

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This is sort of my thinking, I will post a part list for the best new components build I can do (minus a win licence too :frowning: ) once I feel I can’t make it better, I currently have the bonus of not having to pay for electricity, and I also have a small power solar system that would allow me to save (if I had to) a little electricity to reduce any impact.
So at the moment the only downside for me of higher power draw components is the sheer heat from them, in a room with no real heat exit!

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This is the best I could do for an over-budget, but close performance build. Memory and case could be saved on a little probably, but the power supply (overkill) is about the best value part I have found.
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/BbKJw6

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If I buy within 12 hours (will be close to the end of 12 due to time zone, and my waking hours), I can get a 16GB RAM Lenovo c30 (2x E5-2609v2), no HDD, and a couple of basic 2d nvidia NVS cards for £250, should I consider going for it?

Also, the ad for the E5-2667 V2 updated, and unfortunately, it looks now like the price is for 1 cpu.

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Don’t buy that board. That VRM looks puny. Also that Trident-Z kit is not Samsung B-Die. So I would not recommend it.

If you want to play games: no, you don’t want to buy that.

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https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/33n7Cb

This is my recommendation. I’ve got a friend running this motherboard with a 2700x just fine. He also has this ram, and was able to hit 3200 just by switching the xmp profile.

I know this is a bit out of your budget, @anon42572516, but if you can scrounge some spare change, I think you’ll be very satisfied with it. Not to mention, the benefit of new parts is that you’ve got warranty, should the worst happen, and they start their time in your hands at age zero, instead of 3 to 5 years old.

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I decided not to go for the cheap c30, as I haven’t worked out if it is worth upgrading one for my usage instead of waiting until I can afford new gear. Because of the difficulties of using old systems I am reconsidering a build with new components, but my budget is a true maximum, I can’t spend more on a system (without graphics or storage) than £600, and even then, to spend that much now or the near future would have to be for an extremely good value system. A new build would rely on my laptop holding out with heavy use for a fair amount of time, but I can take that risk if it is the right decision.

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I think you’ll be very hard pressed to find a system that fits your use case with your budget. I understand you’re under constraints, but with the current market, I simply don’t see a way you can get all your requirements built for £600.

EDIT: I’m just closed-minded.

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If you’re trying to be cheap, go R7 1700 on a B350 board, unless you’re doing crossfire or SLI you don’t need X370, nice as it would be.

That drops board cost significantly.

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Let’s see:

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/k38kw6

£602.

Hmmmmmm. Looks good to me.

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