It isn't something that is really an issue on these forums anymore, but I figured I'd bring up the topic for future reference. When Windows 10 came out the forums were on fire with users yelling and screaming about privacy and Linux and all that jazz... myself included. I'm going to be honest with you here; if you can't get work done with it, what use does it have? My argument has and still is that I can do everything I need to on Linux and that's enough for me. Maybe the people flaming others need to realize that someone may genuinely like an OS however crappy you may view it? There's a purpose to this. Don't waste your time making your life that much harder by learning a platform you may not even be interested in. Linux is great, but I also realize I've used it my entire life, and others may be accustomed to different amenities that I've found substitutes for. I never understood why someone would use Photoshop and pay for it over using GIMP, Inkscape, and Krita for free until recently; obviously if something is easier to do on one platform for YOU then stick with it... You can't expect a dremil to replace every tool in your toolbox. Why would you shoot yourself in the foot by limiting the software that makes your life that much easier? Privacy? Yes, that MAY be an issue, but at the same time, what the hell are you doing on your fucking computer? Going to PornHub? I'm pretty sure the NSA doesn't give a fuckin shit about one man torrenting fifty movies a week down in Louisiana. I can agree; no, they don't deserve the right to go snooping around everyone's data, but at the same time, who gives a shit?
I kinda got sidetracked. Point being use the right tool for the right job. If you can't do your work without Windows or OS X (I highly beg to differ, but you've gotta use what your comfortable with) then stick to it.
It's funny; am I the only one who is accustomed to stuff like GIMP and starts to feel wired using PS?
That's the end of my rant.
TL;DR: Use what you've gotta use, but equally keep an open mind to new technologies.
I agree with everything said. I think as a little add on note, that we shouldn't flame anyone for using the operating system they use. I think we also need to define the line between suggesting someone try's linux and trying to push linux onto people. If you suggest a build log and do your sepal about why its great and the builds pros/cons/etc, then you could totally tack on the suggestion of 'hey maybe try to dual boot linux or try it in a vm or even just run it as your daily operating system,' but not trying to force it on people, because sometimes we've all seen when someone comes in does the build and then says 'only install linux on it, save money on buying windows, don't buy windows, etc;' and yeah Linux is great but there is such a thing as pushing someone into linux before they have the know-how to use linux competently.
Good post. There are a few of us who where raised using Unix-Like OSs so using DOS based OSs is hard for us. The same is true for people who are used DOS or Apple operating systems. Some times it is hard to change from what you know.
I agree. I love Linux its on every computer in my house including my gaming pc and it works great but its not something people can get used to in a day it takes time like with every os. There are applications in Linux that I couldn't be without just like there are applications for many people in windows that they need. There has to be a very well defined line between suggesting to a person to try Linux and pushing someone into it. Then when ever I run into an issue with my Linux os I always think of this pic and find a solution
I kind of agree with the privacy part. Personally when 10 came out I just turned all that shit off. I never used Cortana, or the app store, or any of that shit.
I think what most people are concerned about is if we give them this much, they're gonna keep wanting more, and we'll keep giving them more because it doesn't seem like too much of an inconvenience at the time, but eventually they'll get to a point where we get sick of it and tell them to stop, but they'll be so deep into everyone's business already that we can't do anything about it.
I think that's what most people are truly worried about. Will we ever be able to tell them to stop, or are we just going to become more and more accustomed to them being more and more into our business that eventually we just stop caring, or can't stop them from doing it.
This is why Richard Stallman kind of cracks me up, but at the same time he has some very valid points. As nice as an idea it sounds, I'll never be able to use completely "free" everything. Almost everyone I know has a smartphone, and I'm going to assume it's like that most places in America. So privacy is out the window and has been for at least a few years now.
So sure, security in Linux is a nice bonus, but if you have a Facebook then why are you so worried about Win10? All your info is already out there anyways. Just because there's a password doesn't mean nobody else can get to it.
I use Linux partly because of security, partly because it runs a lot faster than Windows, and like @shadowvengence22 said because it's just more fun. I just like it more. The only reason I've been stuck on Windows for so many years is gaming, but now that more and more games are being made natively for Linux, and for the ones that aren't - a lot of them work through WINE, that's not as big of an issue any more.
My view on it is, has, and always will be that any OS is suitable. I have a PPC mac for learning how apple works and as a pure toy, most of my systems are linux based except my desktop, which happens to have windows on it as well as my main OS install of ubuntu mate. The only reason I have windows installed is for when I want to stream DayZ or play like 2 other games with my friends (Empyrion Galactic Survival and Killing Floor 2).
Other than that, I stream in linux, video edit in linux (fuck having to pay for a tool that I'm not going to use all of when KDenLive and PiTiVi do all of whatever bullshit Adobe spews out, not to mention that I can get Davinci Resolve for free, also AVID is in linux..... so thats a thing), coding is not a problem, I game in linux, I DJ in linux, websurf, hack chat with friends.... I do this with no issues and fangirl OSX users at my school kept telling me Cairo Dock was an OSX thing. 'Scuse me jigga? You wanna look up 1996 when cairo dock was releas3ed and come back later? I get the same shit from windows users about how gaming cannot be done in linux and omg why would you want to stream from linux thats stupid.
It's the same mentality users here have about new PC builds. Can't afford windows? Why not try linux if it's a workstation? "Urhmmm thats bakaaa, you need to have windows and all intel setups." What really aggrivates me is when someone says "This is a linux build" and people flip when I recommend an 8350 or 9590. Fact is linux is stronger on older hardware. It's like an LTS kernel. It will not break. At that you can use a 390 on that shit and not have to worry and have the new drivers! I got off point..... Anywhoozle.
Yeah I save money by doing this, but like the pic above says it's just fun. Thats all it really is. Having the security stuff not be a threat is awesome and I don't have to worry about viruses. I don't have to think about any of that stuff. All I need to see is release notes for the next driver updates and release notes for the next league of legends champ that is coming out, then go work on a youtube video while doing a livestream AMA. It's how I live and nothing can really change that. Not some shit-eater here who whines about my phenom based build, and not some idgit on neogaf whining how the Xbox has better performance because openGL isn't directX. I put my money towards companies I care about rather than funding shady bullshit and I'm happy with that.
I don't know if anyone else sees it this way, but to all you forum jerks whining about linux performance and drivers, you can all shove it. Let someone explore for once.
The irony of this post is it's not the windows users, but the Linux users starting this "Windows versus Linux" war on the forum..
I use both Windows and I'm starting to use Linux on my laptop. why? eh it doesn't hurt to understand it. and it's nice.
Ever since Logan started to push all the "Linux" agenda on the forum it's caused a divide between the community to an extent. at least how I personally see it.
You have the Linux users who won't leave people who use Windows alone. and then well i haven't seen this on the forum yet, but there's Linux users who critique other Linux users for their taste in distros. (as we've seen on other parts of the internet as referenced by Logan)
And speaking of the Linux agenda on the forum, I personally feel Logan blew the whole Windows 10 thing out of proportion. like REALLY out of proportion.. and the thing is we know it sort of backfired on him. not because of us specifically. well because he keeps telling people 'USE LINUX! it doesn't spy on you, you can do whatever you want.. don't use Windows anymore go learn Linux!' but he's still using Windows to get work done.. I've had this discussion with someone in the lounge i forget who. but i said it's very contradictory to tell people to stop using Windows and go try out Linux.. when you yourself are still using Windows.. and on a serious note i don't think Logan understand the power he sort of has on this community.. well the Tek Syndicate community and the viewers watching him,
if he says something or he says he does something, I've noticed it starts a bandwagon. for example, in the very beginning prior to Windows 10, i would say around June or July. where logan admitted to using Ubuntu Gnome.. we had an influx of new users saying "I installed Ubuntu GNOME TOO! how to i get this working?" people didn't do research on the things they do prior to messing with Linux. in other words my point being, and If Logan says stop doing something or try something. people will go and do it. without actually looking into what they are doing.
my final thoughts is and if you get offended, I apologize. instead of feeling the need to critique how about you spread the knowledge you know.. simple as that.. and just leave people alone. let people have their "Cake" in peace. and i'm not here to have an argument with anyone on how i personally feel about situation, I'm giving my objective opinion.
Back in 2011 when Logan used to disparage Linux a bit there where regular "let's beat up on Linux" threads. Now when he likes it more it swapped. The forum is pretty hive minded some times.
Any software is acceptable, as long as it is open source. This is pure logic. It's also time for the various administrations to start executing the right they have to check software. In Germany, this right is the direct consequence of artt. 4g and 38 (4) BDSG. Courts have already decided that this touches fundamental human rights. It is undeniable that it is the duty for the Data Privacy Agencies to do control razzias that demand full transparency with regards to the source code of operating systems, especially operating systems that harvest data. There is no doubt at all that software consoles like MS-Windows harvest data, the vendors clearly can't deny it, even though they probably have to deny it under the Patriot Act, but the objective proof is there. Therefore, the Data Protection Agencies have the right to bring the source code to full public transparency, and if such is denied, they have to be consequent and conclude that the software is violating the BDSG, and thus violating fundamental human rights in the EU. That means that the software has to be outlawed with immediate effect, unless the entire source code and all software mechanisms are entirely publicly transparent. This applies to all software that is possibly linked to a potential means of data communication. The (very long) period of leniency on this subject should really be put to an end, the principle that human rights have to be respected or the extent of respect for human rights, cannot seriously be negotiated.
People are always going to criticize Logan for anything. And sometimes i feel like Logan gives people ammunition to do so.
I live by the philosophy of, "If you live your truth.. no one will be able to use it against you." just be objective i don't understand why that is so difficult for people.
If you detest something.. lets say windows since we're having this discussion. People can say, look i don't like Windows for this, this and this, but if you're going to use it here's what i feel you should do when you install windows... we don't get those comments, all we get from other users, oh something happened in Windows? "What do you expect? you're using Windows". You should try Linux.. as if that's going to help the situation..
Let people help each other, if they ask for a recommendation then by all means recommend them something to get them going.
The only main thing that matters is, that you use an OS that works for you. It does not matter what other people think about it. As long as you can do your tasks in the most efficient way, thats all that matters in the end.
Thatbis what Ibam saying it used to be that way with Linux help threads with people telling them to use Windows.. The forum moves in cyclces the whole OS whoring will die down (already has for the most part). Wonder what the next big thing will be?
If Logan says something it basically becomes law on the forum. And everyone just starts to agree with him. me personally, I don't agree with a lot of things he says but when i speak i let people know i'm not speaking in Malice.
As for the next thing? Eh.. probably Android.. Logan hasn't really criticized Android yet.
The Windows thing has sort of died down a bit. But him criticizing it is not going to make me stop using it. We just need to help each other. And stop the divide. But i'm glad he brought the issues to my attention. It gave me a different view point on Windows. If anything it made me more knowledgeable.
The Windows privacy thing seems to be a contradictive issue with a lot of people. I mean look at Google, a good chunk of consumers give Google access to quite a lot of personal information. Yet that same set of people seems to have an issue with giving Microsoft that same information? I usually turn off what I can in favour of privacy, yes. But when the need for privacy becomes an inconvenience is when I start switching some settings. Privacy is one thing, but I am using a product where the moment I purchased it is where I put my trust in the company of said product. If I feel I can no longer trust the company, then I look for an alternative.
I agree, I'm a little tired of how some people are mostly focusing on trying to persuade people that they should use Linux because of a bunch of reasons they may not even care about. After all most people has probably tried out Linux before they made their decision but for some reason they just could not get around using it due to various probably legit issues. Instead of arguing over it I think we should be trying to figure out why people get annoyed and try to find solutions.
Also, it's important to remember that Logans critique towards Win10 is mostly directed towards Microsoft and not towards us end users as I understand it. It may have been a bit blown out of proportion but the goal was obviously not to get Linux users to shout at regular people using Windows, he wanted to make a point and he wanted get it through effectively, the point being that he doesn't think it's ok for Microsoft to go in that direction.
It is sad that the whole thing has led to a bit of polarization, what OS you use doesn't matter for anyone else that yourself, at least not significantly.
Anyways, I think Linux is great and the more people using it the better it will become, I think the community should focus more on being productive and less on arguing over what individuals should and should not do. If we want to get people to move, we need to figure out what people dislike with the platform and try to fix the problems.
We should never stop advocating digital privacy and freedom but please do not direct criticism towards the end users when they can't even get work done on Linux due to issues that we should be trying to fix.
Since W10 I've seen these forums moan and groan about W10, and "try Linux", that I've been reluctant to come here. I feel that Tek Syndicate is now all about jumping through hoops, and suggesting other software solutions, just to get you to Linux.
I agree that MS definitely does listen to its customers.
For anyone who disagrees, look at the Xbox One.
Before it came out they had a bunch of insane ideas, particularly related to DRM, and people were like well fuck you too then we'll just not buy it. So MS was like okay well we're not going to do that then. The problem is they didn't listen entirely, and still only put out the $500 one with the Kinect that most people didn't want, which is why the PS4 literally outsold the Xbox by 200%. This was the real eye-opener for them, which is why they put out a $350 version without the Kinect, and now Xbox sales are slowly starting to catch up to PS4 sales. ALSO they're adding in backwards compatibility, where as Sony pretty much told everyone to suck it and if they want to play older games then they have to pay $20 a month and even still there's a very limited selection.
MS is doing a good job at listening to the people nowadays, it's just that some people want everything their way and they want it now otherwise they bitch about it online and then the sheeple get all pissy too and start hating on MS. They don't realize how much work and planning goes into what might seem like a very simple thing to do.
The thing is, most people don't see Windows 10 features as spyware, they see it as a tool, and whether they use it or not is up to them. Sure, the more security conscious people (like most of us probably are) probably see it as potentially harmful, but I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of everyone using Windows 10 doesn't care if Cortana is sending their searches to MS.
So will they change it? I dunno, but you can already turn most of it off in the settings, so at least they took that into consideration. Since the majority of people probably don't care, they'll probably never get rid of it.
