OK Valve, now you've done it

Communities Gaming
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So Valve decided to VAC ban KQLY, Sf and smn right before the 250000 USD Dreamhack Winter 2014 Tournament, and also decided to therefore ban Titan and Epsilon from Dreamhack.

Valve thereby refuses to give any information about the VAC bans, writing literally to Titan in respons to their request for information: "  We are not able to discuss any additional details about a VAC ban. " (source: http://titan.pro/news/read/DreamHack-Winter-2014-Epilogue/21)

In the wake of this scandal, information has leaked that Valve discovered the hack through ESEA (so not based on VAC detection during an official tournament) and through the cooperation of the creator of the hack, a hack that is being sold through the Steam Community Store...

The hack that's targeted here, is a paid hack, and requires the user to enter a keycode when starting the game, so the chances of the player being able to install the hack and log in on stage during a tournament, are almost zero, as these machines are also used by other teams and players, and it would definitely be very hard to enter the keycode while on stage. Also it would be very hard to install the hack on the machine. KQLY has come forward, and said that he had used the hack on ESEA for 7 days. So that's not even during Valve official competitive play.

Now several pro players have stated that a large percentage of pro players actually use hacks on a regular basis, and that sounds very acceptable, because it's a competitive sport, and just like in physical sports, there will always be doping.

Now here's the odd thing: the tournament is in Sweden, and the Swedish top teams haven't been doing so great lately, and Valve is American, and the American teams don't stand a chance against the European teams... and who benefits from the ban of Epsilon and Titan, yup, the Swedish and American teams... and it's a 250000 USD tournament.

What are the odds of only the French pro teams using hacks? In physical sports, it's typically the Americans who are the first to go for doping, so why would that be different for e-sports?

KQLY has been playing for a long time, and Valve never saw anything wrong with his play, and now, just before Dreamhack, they VAC ban him and ban Titan along with it. This sounds very fishy to me, and not a serious way of going about things.

CS:GO itself has been getting ever worse because of Valve "updates", and is hardly playable any more, the game is just frustrating to play, and meanwhile Valve is turning CS:GO into a pseudo free-to-play.

In my opinion, Valve needs to be very clear about these VAC bans, and provide full and unfiltered information, including all server logs. They mine all other data from users, they surely must have kept the server logs too, so they shouldn't even think of saying that they don't have the data any more, because that's just bullshit.

If Valve doesn't offer complete transparency about this, and doesn't offer the public (and it's the players that fucking pay for that 250000 USD prize money!) full information and insight over the VAC detection, full proof regarding the detections, and full argumentation why the entire teams were banned, they should be sued for stealing 250000 USD, it's a simple as that. This is not a serious way to go, and Valve has no governmental authority, so has to provide full proof before civil court if it terminates a contract because it accuses a contract party of contractual violations (which is what a VAC ban is), and should provide a clear explanation why it is penalizing other parties that have a contract with Valve, and that are not in breach of contract, because of that.

This is simply unheard of and scandalous on behalf of Valve, and I hope they get their socks sued off. Who the fuck do they think they are, do they really think they are above the law?

 

On a side note, this is again a proof that all software needs to be open source, because there will never be a guarantee for even the most elementary civil contract rights of consumers, as long as companies are allowed to hide behind closed source software.

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VAC works based on a database that Valve maintains. If the VAC system detects a signature that belongs to a cheat in their database. It isn't transparent because that open holes for it to be circumvented. It does not matter weather you are a PRO player or not, if are attempting to give yourself an advantage, you will be shot down. Which means, the people who got VAC-banned was fully deserved.

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+1

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It doesnt matter who they are, they cheated on steam, steam shut them down. That's how VAC works. 

and that sounds very acceptable, because it's a competitive sport, and just like in physical sports, there will always be doping

How is that acceptable? It isn't acceptable for players to "be doping" and it isnt acceptable for pro players to cheat.


In my opinion, Valve needs to be very clear about these VAC bans, and provide full and unfiltered information, including all server logs.


Why..? It's non of yours, or anyone else's business why they were banned. It's between them and valve, honestly. You have no right to that information, just as I would have no right to know if you got kicked out of school, or for what reasons you were fired from your last job. 

Just because the public doesn't know exactly what happened doesn't mean the players don't know. They were cheating, they broke the EULA of steam, therefore any "contracts" they would have had would be null and void.

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I thought this was going to be about an announcement that half life 3 was canceled or something.

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Me too.

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Not the point, cheating is not alright, everyone knows that, but terminating with maximum prejudice for even other players that are not accused of cheating, without even responding to a quest for information on why they terminated and disqualified, is not only a breach of civil contract law, but also a crime, because there is no reason why Valve should cause potential damages to the amount of 250000 USD to players to contract partners that have nothing to do with the thing.

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 without even responding to a quest for information on why they terminated and disqualified, is not only a breach of civil contract law, but also a crime

No, they were banned for cheating. That's the reason. It doesnt matter if it was during a competition or not, they cheated, they broke the EULA, so they were banned.

because there is no reason why Valve should cause potential damages to the amount of 250000 USD to players to contract partners that have nothing to do with the thing.

Several members of the teams were banned for cheating. So obviously the team could not continue with with the members being banned. New teams are being chosen to play the tournament. 

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It's not acceptable that they cheated, it's plausible that a big part of pro players cheat in one form or the other.

It IS my business that Valve doesn't respect the elementary principles of contract law, and sets itself above the law. I've cofinanced the 250000 USD that they're potentially stealing from players that have done them nothing wrong. In fact, where's the proof that the players that were VAC banned have done something wrong? Valve refuses to provide it.

Valve should be sued for breach and prosecuted for theft. They should have to provide the absolute proof that these players committed breach, and they should pay damages (under US law of course, so millions of dollars) to the players that didn't cheat but got disqualified for a 250000 USD tournament, especially in the light of possible collusion given the fact that they only disqualified the French teams that were in the way of the Swedish and American teams.

If Valves uses unilateral secret methods to determine whether or not there is breach, and punishes other contract partners for that, that is arbitrary, and is not legal in any contract law in the world. Valve should be sentenced for this, they need to revise their policies and start respecting the law. If they can't do that with closed source software, they need to do it with open source software. Again, something that can't bear sunlight, shouldn't exist.

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There was never any proof produced by Valve that there was cheating going on, Valve refused to give any information on the VAC ban.

Nope, only one member of each team was VAC banned, and the prequalification was still open, they could have retracted the invite based on a different team roster, but there is no reason to ban the other team members from participating in the qualifiers with another player. It's obviously wrong.

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It's not acceptable that they cheated

"and that sounds very acceptable, because it's a competitive sport, and just like in physical sports, there will always be doping"

Valve should be sued for breach and prosecuted for theft. They should have to provide the absolute proof that these players committed breach,

Vac is an automated system that bans players for cheating. That is proof enough. There isnt this much fuss when anyone else gets banned, and there shouldnt be for them. You cheat, you get banned. It;s really very simple.

and they should pay damages (under US law of course, so millions of dollars) to the players that didn't cheat but got disqualified for a 250000 USD tournament

Damages for what? They didnt win, their team was disqualified for cheating members. They could only get compensation if they could PROVE that they would have won. Which is impossible. They broke the EULA, they broke their own contracts, thats that.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat#False-positive_detections

There has only been a total of SEVEN VAC bans which have been fixed. VAC banned to me is the most sophisticated anti-hack system EVER!

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There was never any proof produced by Valve that there was cheating going on, Valve refused to give any information on the VAC ban

The VAC ban is proof enough. That's what it's for.

and the prequalification was still open, they could have retracted the invite based on a different team roster, but there is no reason to ban the other team members from participating in the qualifiers with another player. It's obviously wrong.

Unless the entire team was under contract. Then the contract would require that the entire team be disqualified. Or, if there was a zero-tolerance policy for cheating, and if one person on the team cheated, the entire team would be disqualified. it isn't unheard of.

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+1

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The VAC ban is proof enough. That's what it's for.

That's just a dumb remark, Phantom, and you know it. That's like as if you were saying: well this guy has been put in prison by his employer, that means he must have stolen something... that's not the way things work in a civilized society. Valve has no more legal rights than any of it's customers, if you would claim that Valve is cheating by sabotaging the linux version of CS:GO, do you think Valve would just give everyone that has installed the linux version his money back plus 250000 USD in damages? Nope, because you would have to provide proof that Valve is doing that. Well, if Valve claims that a player is cheating, Valve should provide proof of that to all parties with a legitimate interest, and that most certainly includes the customers that paid for the prize money, and the players that weren't VAC banned but got robbed of their chance to win the prize money.

The whole thing just stinks, Valve should be sued into the ground for this.

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WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK! VAC has only SEVEN false positives! THAT IS PROOF ENOUGH!

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Valve has no more legal rights than any of it's customers

Yes, it does. Because you agreed to its TERMS OF SERVICE. The terms of service state that if you cheat, you get banned. That's it.

VAC catches a Cheat = ban

They cheated. They got VAC banned. That's it. 

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VAC is a system proven to work. Which is why it is even in place. You comparing it to a bad employer is a weak analogy. Valve itself is the employer and VAC is like security with 25 years worth of training on their job.

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Wow, I expected better from the forum than a bunch of bored bullies that don't even want to think about fundamental elements of proof in civil litigation...