None of these games are fully ray traced at all.
They’re ‘mixed mode’ - Hybrid renderers.
Rasterization for the heavy lifting and raytracing for the ‘extra shiny’ effects
I also suspect that several of the demos are not fully realtime ‘game’ renders, particularly the reflection heavy Battlefield 5 amsterdam scene seems like a small demo setpiece, specifically made to showcase RTX.
Yes that I was after, like for example just shadows, you can just not use that 4096x4096 shadowmap, and trace it there? 
Although I guess you could still have this odd gameworks cheat going on and do some sort of hybrid shadow
Shadows, SSAO & Global Illumination and several screen space effects are ideally suited for Ray tracing.
There is a metro demo where a dev / rep explains aspects of how they’ve used it:
Really we are not going to see fully raytraced games, unless we turn the graphics down to Quake 2 levels.
This must look good in HDR
Until this becomes a global standard across brands this is essentially hardware exclusive gameworks. If AMD were to release cards capable of ray tracing how much you wanna bet this wouldn’t work on them?
Sidenote, this shit explains why Metro got delayed, it got shoe horned in at the last second.
I’ve said since before that the Nvidia RTX middleware is Gameworks 2.0.
That said though if you have a look in this thread:
You will see that I have posted various sources for the standardized DirectX and Vulkan Raytracing API’s/Demo’s.
It should also be said that the RT and Tensor Cores are not particularly special / novel on their own in terms of how they function, the inclusion of them however together within a graphics SM is novel. 
You can be sure to see similar features from AMD, Intel and PowerVR as the Machine Learning and Ray tracer wars slowly begin.
Of note: raytracing does not require these RT or Tensor cores. You can do raytracing (even realtime) on current gen hardware with Vulkan or DirectX just fine. It’s just not specially accelerated with dedicated hardware.
Do we know that’s how it’s actually implemented or is this just counter conjecture? (saying of course that my point is conjecture)
You’ll have to clarify which particular aspects implementation you’re referring to.
The way they’re treating these RTX cards like their own ecosystem leads me to believe these ray tracing render features will be made exclusive to these cards while you’re saying they will not was wondering if you had more information or if we’re both speaking purely speculation.
@SoulFallen Same as @pFtpr said here.
The hardware that enables Raytracing and the Tensor cores is not particularly special, anyone willing to make a big die GPU can implement them.
They’re also exposed via the driver in a way that Vulkan, OpenGL and DirectX will be able to use them to accelerate specific compute operations. Think of it like SSE4 or AVX in a CPU.
RTX (Or OptiX Raytracing Middleware) is just a collection of code and prebuilt effects put together by Nvidia into a library that talks to the API & the display driver. It’s meant to make it easy for developers to just drop raytracing capabilities into their existing projects.
But of course you could just write a raytracer with Vulkan API code without RTX, run it on say a Vega64 at a slower pace or then alternatively have aspects of it accelerated via the extra hardware features exposed by the driver on Nvidia GeForce RTX hardware.
In the end it all comes down to the software implementation that developers use, do they code their own raytracer code and handle all GPU’s nicely, or do they just drop in Nvidia RTX middleware which will undoubtedly favour newer Nvidia Hardware.
I’d save it anyways, these GPUs sound good in performance but man their prices are very high.
I wonder what the performance gains are going to be here since it looks like it’s likely we may see an additional performance increase even not factoring in the additional hardware accelerated Raytrace.
The only thing Navi can really possibly do now is do what Polaris did and and sell on the mid tier GPUs and some budget GPUs, hopefully a mid-high tier GPU as well ($400).
AMD is going to have to undercut NVidia hard in price, much like how Bulldozer undercutted Intel CPUs in price later on when AMD needed to slash those prices. Besides, as much as I like powerful GPUs, I like my GPUs to at least be affordable, the RTX GPUs don’t qualify as affordable for me.
AMD yet has a trick card up it’s sleeves. 
Tease 
Guessing something corny along the lines of
“The magic was inside them ALL along…”
Yeah, in 2020.
I just don’t see AMD beating NVidia in performance anytime soon. It’s unfortunate too since I like the recent work AMD has done with open sourcing the GPU drivers (except for the firmware unfortunately).
I guess if AMD can use Navi to make a $200 GPU with GTX 1070 level performance (or a bit less, that’s kind of a tall order) and a $300 GPU with GTX 1080 level performance and a $400-500 GPU with GTX 1080 Ti level of performance. No idea how any of that is going to work though. Also we need the $100-150 GPUs actually have substantially better performance. The RX 560 and GTX 1050/Ti are not strong cards and are even weak GPUs compared to a RX 570 and GTX 1060 3 GB.
Although personally, I would look between $200 and $400 for a GPU for gaming.
Yes and no, the market for the cards at the RTX price is tiny, like 10% or less or something… So they aren’t building the game around raytracing, so its going to be like physx, it looks great on the demos but in the game its tacked on, because no developer is going to eliminate 90% of the market.
And honestly none of the game demos looked like they had good graphics, raytracing or otherwise. Actually Nvidias own Raytracing DEMOs looked fantastic, the gameworks demos looked like trash.
Convinced gameworks is trash. For trashy developers that don’t want to pay for developing their own game… Its like those fake games that people put on steam using generic game assets…
Gameworks is generic game assets for EA and other shitty publishers…
Jayz: Perspective
Which from a tech tuber on a 6 figure USD salary (and I know guys it doesn’t go far in cali, but that is his own doing, he could just as easily move to the mid west) who gets everything for free that is kinda an absoloute jokes…
So the fact that in two generations the flagship has gone from 600mm sq and 600usd to 750 sq mm and 1200USD, and gives only 30fps at 1080p is no reason to be upset… I would need like 2 of these and a new 1080p monitor for this to be ‘worth it’… And it would have to be a locked down, over priced nvidia G-synch monitor because of the low fps…
So it would cost like $3000 all up… Clearly Raytracing isn’t a consumer level tech yet, look the demo they had with star wars was running at like 22FPS… It looks great, but its like 2 or 3 generations away from getting that in a PC game… On a single flagship card…
And I appreciate that its likely going to be fast, and I don’t need to play it in that mode or with Raytracing at max, but cmon to say this isn’t a legit complaint. Even if performance is 50% higher than the 1080ti and the price is 71% greater…
And normally when we get a refresh on basically the same node and we get bigger dies because the node has matured and defect rates have dropped, normally we get a bigger die and they don’t have to increase the price… Certainly never increase the price more than the performance gain…
So we are just supposed to shut up and put up?
Yeah, because it’s so easy to just pluck your loved ones and uproot your life.
There’s always going to be an early-adopter tax.
I agree with you here. There’s some cost for performance per dollar sheet somewhere. Diminishing returns.
Really don’t get what everyone is upset about.
Only uninformed people would be upset about performance that hasn’t even been published yet.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nvidia is Hype training this.
Consoles and PC are all made up of AMD and GTX cards. RTX will be a single digit % of the market. Sure Nvidia will poor in money to have some games, what 25 is it some with only the new anti-aliasing. I think it was only 7-8 with new and old engines to support RTX fully.
This custom Nvidia only ray tracing could go the way of PhysX and just not get put into games. Its just a little more bling.