Noob build! Don't judge me

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1

Hello,

 I'm going to buy a fresh, new and kind of "awsome" PC.  My Parts:

  • 24" (60,96cm) BenQ GL Serie GL2460 schwarz 1920x1080 1xVGA/1xDVI € 115,32

  • Gigabyte Force K7 Stealth Gaming Keyboard USB Deutsch schwarz € 32,70

  • Intel Core i5 4570 4x 3.20GHz So.1150 BOX € 161,95

  • 8GB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR3 1600 DIMM CL9 Dual Kit € 55,90

  • ASRock H87M Pro4 Intel H87 So.1150 Dual Channel DDR3 mATX € 61,51

  • 3072MB Gigabyte Radeon R9 280 Windforce 3x OC Aktiv PCIe 3.0 x16 € 189,00

  • 400 Watt be quiet! Sy stem Power 7 Bulk Non-Modular 80+ Bronze € 38,41

  • Sharkoon VS3- S Midi Tower ohne Netzteil € 29,75

  • 1000GB Seagate Desktop HDD ST1000DM003 64MB 3.5" (8.9cm) SATA 6Gb/s € 44,96

________________________________________________________

€ 729,50

I do need everything like mouse, monitor, HDMI cable and so forth. You get the idea... :)

My own thoughts and preferences:

  • Gaming PC at first, maybe some photoshop occasionally.
  • Maxed out settings in games, the higher the better. I'm a real graphic whore.
  • No mayor upgrade the next 2 - 3 years possible.
  • Maybe a bigger monitor, better GPU, CPU
  • Budget is about € 850,00


My questions:
  • How important is the CPU in my case. Could I save some money and spend it in a better GPU instead?
  • What about AMD CPU's? Is the performance of an Intel CPU within the same range sigificantly better?
  • Do my thoughts have any relevance here or am I just fine this build? :)
 
Probably there are many more things to consider about which I do not even think. Well, I'm a noob and really need some help. Just to mention, right now I use a 4 year old Laptop from Samsung (R540 JS0A). So everything is an improvement from my point of view! :)
 
Please help me out with this I'd really appriciate this,
 
thanks.

 

 

2

I think you should go for at least a 500 watt psu if not a 600 watt psu. 

As for the cpu, the i5 should have better per core performance, which may be preferable in most games, but for tasks that make use of many threads such as video rendering, the fx 8350 will probably be preferential. 

Here is a bunch of benchmarks that compare a bunch of intel processors and an fx 8350.


Look at the gaming and application performance. Just use this as a starting point, this was really just the first link I clicked on that compared both cpu's. Other sites may have some different results or have different benchmarks that prefer one cpu over the other, but this site does include photoshop benchmarks. I should also note that with the fx 8350 (and an adequate cooling solution) you have the ability to overclock and get get better performance. If you are willing to overclock this may sway your decision since you can't do too much in the way of overclocking the new intel chips unless you pony up for the "k" series chips.

As for getting a cheaper cpu, I'm not sure it's worth it. Saving a few dollars (or euro in your case) on a CPU is not really worth it unless it will allow you to get a vastly superior GPU. I'm personally not a fan of pairing the fastest GPU you can afford with minimal investment in the CPU. Computers need some balance, and you will be upgrading your GPU more frequently than your CPU. If I had to guess (and that's all this is, I have absolutely no evidence to back this up, I may do a google search later in the hopes I'm not horribly wrong) I would say it's not uncommon to go through 2 or more GPU's (meaning at least one upgrade) through the life cycle of your computer. That means that you want your CPU to last you for twice as long or more as your GPU. I guess my point is you may regret cheaping out on your CPU down the road.

Hopefully others will chime in if they haven't already as I typed this.

3

which country??

4

@iTr0_0oW ...Germany.

@crazymobster Thanks, I get the hint with the PSU. Well I thought to not upgrade my system the next 2 - 3 years and having a somewhat "overkill" PSU would not be necessary unless I really need it tough. Considering it will last me for about 3 years, will it not be better to upgrade later on since its not very expensive either compared to other components and pump some more cash in parts which actually influence the gaming experience like the monitor, GPU, mouse or even keyboard right now?

 

The benchmarks are not enlightening me very much to say at least. Well yes I do understand the charts and figures out there and I can possible imaginge what all this means. But to be quite frankly, do I really can tell the difference between 37.6 and 38 FPS in my overall gaming experince? I watched a lot of videos and read many articles about these topics and its still hard to tell for me what really makes the difference. I'm not talking about to pair a GTX Titan with a Pentium, but  an FX 6300 and a R9 290 or 280x for example. Am I just so wrong with this? 

 

Overclocking is a whole new thing for me since I just own a Laptop yet. Not quite sure if I will do it in the near future tough. In my point of view, as I'm not really achive a massive change in my experience I probably wont. Don't get me wrong with this, I do not intend to judge people who do just for me personal I'm not convinced.

5

500 watts really isn't overkill. The price difference isn't that much, how much does a corsair cx500 cost in your region. 

As for the cpu, in most games the gpu is the bottleneck, that is why in most of those charts there is no real difference, but in some games (especially some of the newer ones it seems) the whole system matters. For example look at Assassin's Creed 4 (3 was even worse) and Watch Dogs. Again in most games the cpu isn't that important, but it isn't as irrelevant as many people seem to think.The reason I say invest a little more in the cpu now is because most people require that their cpu lasts much longer than their gpu. You wouldn't want to skimp now, then when it is time for you to upgrade your graphics card realize it won't matter since your cpu is holding you back.  But anyway, I thought you would be more interested in the application benchmarks (on the next page of the link I provided) since you said you may do some Photoshop work. Outside of gaming there is actually a very real difference in performance between the cpu's tested.

 

Overclocking isn't everyone's cup of tea, I just thought you should be aware of the possibility. 

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get a 8320 with a asus m5a97 evo R2.0, a r9 280 and a 500 watt psu or more. xfx 550

http://www.amazon.de/SAPPHIRE-Radeon-3072MB-GDDR5-PCI-E/dp/B00IRTXPBM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450243&sr=8-1&keywords=r9+280

http://www.amazon.de/AMD-Octa-Core-Prozessor-Socket-Cache/dp/B009O7YU56/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450287&sr=8-1&keywords=8320

http://www.amazon.de/M5A97-EVO-R2-0-Mainboard-CrossFireX/dp/B008RPZ5H8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450302&sr=8-1&keywords=m5a97+evo+r2.0

or

http://www.amazon.de/Gigabyte-GA-970A-UD3P-Mainboard-Sockel-DDR3-Speicher/dp/B00F5R9O46/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450325&sr=8-12&keywords=am3%2B

both motherboards can handle a 8core (asus 6+2 phases, gigabyte 8+2 phases)

http://www.amazon.de/XFX-P1-550S-XXB9-Edition-Wired-PC-Netzteil/dp/B004RJ8EKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450412&sr=8-1&keywords=xfx+550

http://www.amazon.de/Western-Digital-5-Zoll-desktop-Festplatte-64MB-Cache/dp/B00DB3TKAY/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450469&sr=8-6&keywords=wd+blue+1tb or any other 1tb hdd

http://www.amazon.de/Samsung-MZ-7TE250BW-interne-metallic-silber/dp/B00E391OX6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450497&sr=8-1&keywords=samsung+840+evo

http://www.amazon.de/Cooler-Master-Hyper-CPU-Kühler-120mm/dp/B0068OI7T8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450562&sr=8-1&keywords=212+evo

http://www.amazon.de/Corsair-CC-9011023-WW-Carbide-PC-Gehäuse-midi-ATX/dp/B009GXZ8MM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450578&sr=8-1&keywords=corsair+200r

http://www.amazon.de/Crucial-BLS2CP4G3D1609DS1S00CEU-Ballistix-Arbeitsspeicher-240-polig/dp/B006YG94Y2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401450617&sr=8-1&keywords=crucial+8gb+ram

something like this is awesome

if you want a game pc, buy a cpu with 8 threads, the newer games are made for 8 threads. r9 280 is perfect for 1080p gaming imo. if you have money left get a nice mechanical keyboard or a 250gb ssd

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@crazymobster You're right, corsair cx500 just costs € 10,00 more.


I saw the application benchmarks. Right now I'm doing my editing on a i3 370M 2.4 GHz and it's "just fine" for me. Well I could see some improvements when working with higher resolution pictures tough. The GPU in my laptop is an ATI Mobility Readon HD 4500/5100 Series. Pretty bad specfications I know! But thats why I'm saying everthing will be an improvement for me.


The argument of a solid CPU backing me up in the future seems legit. I probably will stick to the 4570 or if I have some cash over I will even go for the 4670K. The FX 8350 do not appeal so much for me now cause I really focus on gaming and the Intel solution should just do fine for my needs in Photoshop.

 

As I understood my balancing so far is with this build is valid right? But we might enlarge this conversation a bit. What about the monitor for example. Is there anything mayor I should think about? The BenQ has 2ms response time, 250cd/m² brightness and 12,000,000:1 DCR. Is it any good for media consumption or gaming? Am I able to get "better" within the same price range? 

 

8

an fx 8320 beats an i5 in newer games and for editing the 8 core is probably way faster.

9

Thanks for your help. I checked your links above and immediatly get some questions, hope you can help me out. 

  1. Why choosing the Sapphire and not the Gigabyte as both are the same r9 280? 
  2. The fx 8350 is easily in my budget, so I would go with the higher number instead. Will it cause me any disadvatages not having integrated graphics in this particular build? 
  3. Where you get the information to rely on, all benchmarks I saw showed the Intel i5 as the faster CPU in gaming at least?

 

An SSD is not an option for me now. For my first build I can live with an HDD. The Keyboard is something I already considered but to buy one I should first get my hands on some more professionals.

 

10

Sapphire just have a better cooler at the moment

FX 8350 is cheaper and faster then an i5 and will work better for photoshop.

Information you should get from benchmarks from many different sites and forums so you're sure it's not subjective (many review sites get paid by manufacturers to skew reviews in their favor). There isn't much of a difference in gaming between a fast i5 and an fx 8350 at stock speeds. There are exceptions and you might want to check out benchmarks individually, it might be a decisive factor (for example DayZ or Natural Selection 2 aren't quite well optimized and run faster on intel)

11

fx 8320 is the exact same chip. i saw fx 8320 go over 5ghz so save the money and put the money into something else. the gigabyte is cheaper and cooler so take that one. i couldn't find it anymore but if you can get the gigabyte one:).  fx 8320 is a faster cpu for rendering 100% sure. in gaming it's better if the game is written for 8 threads, which are all the newer games due to the 8 core consoles. watchdogs, bf4 etc are made for 8 threads so those games will perform better with the fx 8320. fx 8320 is more future proof + you can oc it with the motherboard i suggested. it's still close to an i5 4570 but the fx 8320 is cheaper and when you oc it you get a even better gaming cpu.

 

12

get a 8320 and with the 30 euro savings get a better cooler. only get the i5 if you play 99% skyrim.

13

I think one of the things people need to keep in mind is that, while we have had recent enlightenment as to how many watts we REALLY need, the efficiency is recorded at 50% load or something. Some PSU's have some pretty bad eff.  outside of that range. I'd go with a 500-550w, whatever has higher quality and better reviews.

14

I'm not a fanboy, but I haven't seen a single game where an FX 83XX CPU have been faster than the i5, except for BF 4 where it beats the simular i5 by 1-2 FPS. 99% of the games the i5 is faster, and if OP wants to play Arma, or DayZ, intel is a must. If he has the money, he should get the i5. Also in editing, it might suprise you, in most cases, the i5 beats the FX 8350.

15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c24zGcXFBTw just saying. i still think oc a fx 8320  to 4.5ghz or more will beat the i5 overall. it's like 130 euro.

16

I bought a 4570 because I wanted better single-core performance that makes almost all apps faster.  The 8350 has better performance in benchmarks, it clearly beats I believe all the i5 parts, but it won't make a big difference in games, because the CPU is only a piece of the system and is often not the bottleneck.  The 4570 is significantly lower power.

A few minutes' research shows that the R9 280 has a typical power draw of 250 Watts, which is very close to what that Be Quiet power supply can provide on its better rail (Rail 1, 20 Amps, Rail 2, 24 Amps).

 

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12x24= 288. that's not save. xfx 550 is 528watt on 12v rail an 50 euro. i have one and i love it. it's not haswell ready but that doesn't matter. just dissable c6 and c7.

18

@iTr0_0oW  Alright, I got it. I could not find any mayor disadvantage betwenn any of those cards so I will just get the cheaper one. :)

@hoocee12 Thanks for your comment. And to be quite frankly, that is what I was initially thinking. 

@TropiKo Thanks man. I'm aware of paid reviews from various benchmarkers. I thought to post my Idea of a custom build PC here will give me some more individual advice. 

 

As it turns out this discussion becomes more and more an AMD vs. Intel thing. In this matter I will definitely go and get some more information on the different CPUs. Honestly I thought to choose one them would be much easier. :) At the end I'm not going to sit in front of my PC and watch the different benchmark tools to do their job. Neither will I get much excited about which benchmark shows the higher numbers. To be honest with you guys all I care is the overall gaming experince I'm able to achive. Therefore I don't think it is much important for me to gain a couple of frames in order to search the whole internet for benchmarks and study them one by one. The reason why I would go with an Intel CPU and an AMD GPU is also related to the budget I have for this build. I could easily go for an 780Ti and just cheap out on all the other parts to keep the budget but then the balancing would be just so wrong I suppose.

Well I know myself and I'm far away from being a professional gamer, most games that I want to play are initially single player games. I really do not need more than 60 FPS to have fun, even 30 and above would just do fine for me. The only game I can think of as of right know where max performance might come in handy and I really want to play is DayZ. Other  games like Watch Dogs, AC4, GTA are titles I'm not so much concerned about having fun with whenever I choose to go for Intel or AMD. And yes Watch Dogs in particular might benefit from 8 cores but since the optimazation of this game for AMD GPUs is poor recording to various benchmarks, I don't think it would make much of a differnce for me to go either with Intel or AMD.

 

@Invertedparadox Thanks for that. I will definitely go for a better PSU since it won't make much of a price difference here. :)

@Reservation Station Thank you too. Yes I will go for a better PSU. Like I said, it won't crush my budget anyway. :)


I would really like to get more opinions obout the other parts in this build. The monitor for example, is it any good? Well about the keybord we could argue, but its cheap and for the start it should dot the job. :) 

Should I get a seperat cooler for the CPU or ist the stock one doing fine? What are your opinions?

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I would prefer a higher wattage power supply(preferably around 500 watts)