Hey guys, love the show!
Here's something thats been bugging me for a while - I want to migrate my gaming PC to a mini ITX chassis, as I'm tired of schlepping it around to LAN with friends. It is an AM3+ system and I couldn't find any mITX AM3 mobos (save for ZOTAC's line which don't even have a PCIe x16).
Is there any reason for that hole in the market?
Also If I get an FM2+ board and a no-API processor, will it still be slower than AM3?
P.S. Please don't say "get an intel", there is a multitude of reasons I can't do that :(
manufacture's are assholes
how it compares to fm2/+ depends on what processors you're looking at
I dug around a bit and it seems that comparison is harder to make than I thought. Just going specs-wise, price/performance seems to be similar between AM3 and non-API FM2 processors. Even so the only comparable CPU's prom those categories I found on newegg were the AM3+ FX-4300 and the FM2 760K. Setting that comparison aside, the AM3/AM3+ line had much more powerful units than the FM2. Is this a limitation of the socket itself, or just a product of it being relatively new and underdeveloped?
Also, I've heard rumors of a new socket launch for both Intel and AMD for next year, along with DDR4. Is it a good Idea to wait until then to consider an upgrade/form factor migration?
amd is releasing fm2+ (actually the motherboards are already available), it's supposed to be a good improvement but I can't give anything but speculation, it's also much more geared to apus (look up amd's hsa), I also can't say if it'll give fx series level performance because again speculation
as to why there are no high performance cpus on fm2 it's likely a mix of weaker motherboards (even a number of am3+ boards can't handle an octa-core) and that amd has just decided that that's not what they want, perhaps they want a clear divide between the performance and value sectors, but no-one can say
Yeah the gap in non mATX boards boils down to 2 things really. 1. AM3+ is a bit of an old platform and no manufacturer wants to build more Mobos for them(except with the occasional revision of a certain board) 2. Like Overlordnick said Manufacturers hate us. The FM2+ is made for their next generation Kaveri APUs that are supposed to be these ultra powerful APUs and from what we see in the FM2+ Motherboards this could be promising, there will be PCI E. 3.0 Support and a lot of other neat features. If you want to have a build with DDR4, you may have to wait a while as their price upon release will be insane and it will just be better to wait a while until the price goes down. I don't agree with Overlordnick though when he says it's a mix of weaker Motherboards, from what I see; a lot of the FM2+ motherboards have great features for the price, I think they are just held back by the current APU/CPUs that support them.(Maybe Kaveri will change that, but we will have to see). A 760k should be good for gaming, as long as you have a good GPU and you could wait for a Kaveri APU to come out and replace it with that as I'm sure it would make a better CPU anyway.
This kind of question does not belong in inbox.exe,
i moved it to motherboards, cause thats where its all about. ☺ And no there are no AM3+ mini itx boards, the reason for that, what im personaly think is because mini-itx boards are complex, and amd FX 8 core cpu´s are realy powerfull. i hope maybe they will develope, a mini-itx on Am4+ but its all guessing what amd is going to do, upcomming years. ☺
Yeah, but Intel was able to get their 6 core i7s(with hyperthreading, etc) on mini ITX, why couldn't AMD? Not that i don't agree, it's probably very complex, but I think it has more to do with them not wanting to put money into it, which is our loss.
i think it has everythinmg to do with the high TDP on AMD 8 core cpu´s in general, hasswell and ivybridge do not have that high tdp. its also a smaller socket.
intel socket 2011 there is also no mini itx solution for this platform, but thats not strange because socket 2011 is very big, and also have higher tdp, and also a quad memory controller, you cannot put 4 dimm slots on an itx board.
m-atx is a diffrent story, its sadd that mobo manufacturers like asus did not made a Asus 990FX Gryphon for example. But they probably like intel´s route more, because intel makes them sell more boards in general, because they switch sockets every 2 years. ☺
Well what ever the case may be. i hope they get on figuring it out soon, because I would like to have an AMD LAN/Steam machine type rig. Haha. Some of though Mini ITX cases look to good to say no to, I don't like being excluded. I do agree that the 8 cores do have a high TDP; even for some regular ATX boards to handle.
Well i have to admit, that i realy like the sexy looks of a mini-itx case. so i also hope that someday it will happen, but probably never gonne be happen. :(
We have to hope that amd can develope an 8 core apu, that is nearly as powerfull as an i7, if they just could get that architecture right. that would be awesome.
Sorry about misplacing the thread, I'll be more careful next time.
I'm kinda sad now, seeing how Intel gets more money by spewing a new socket before the last one reaches its potential, while AMD loses out while bridging their sockets with semi-compatibility. This really helped me when moving from AM2 to AM3, as I only needed to change the CPU initially and the mobo+ram a few months later (I was really short on cash back then).
Looking at ZOTAC's AM3 mini-ITX designs (specifically this one http://www.zotacusa.com/zotac-890gx-wifi-890gxitx-a-e.html), the PCB really looks crowded, but I can't help but think a PCIe x16 can be squeezed in there. Maybe remove those hardwired wifi antennas? I really find those a waste of real estate - just shove a wifi dongle in the network port. If you require 2-3 antennas sticking out of a microPC, then you need to be hit over the head with the big book of "What a wifi router should be".
Any way, I just hope the manufacturers get their wits about them and make at least a basic AM3/AM3+ mini-ITX with a PCIe x16. I'm giving a three-way stare at you, Asus/MSI/Gigabyte!