Need Help Building a Video Production Switcher

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1

Cliff Note Version

  • I have $3k or so to spend

  • I am building a PC video production switcher (first time build)

  • I know just enough about computers to sound like an expert to novices and a complete idiot to experts.

  • I need something so bad-ass that it will laugh at me and call me names when I ask it to do something.


Hey everyone! I need some expertise and I was told this was the forum to come to. Here's my project…

I want to build a PC video production switcher. For those who might not know, a video switcher will allow me to hook up multiple video cameras to a PC and "switch" between them like a TV studio.

I will be streaming live to the web in 720p while simultaneously rendering a 1080p version. I'm going to be using 4 HD cameras so I need a PC with the power of small nuclear reactor.

Here is a similar setup to what I want but with an $8k price tag (WTF ?!?!)

http://new.livestream.com/studio/hd51

http://new.livestream.com/studio/tech-specs

  • For a CPU, the Live Stream uses an Intel “Sandy Bridge-E" Core i7 3930K 3.2 GHz Six-Core processor, 12MB L3 cache, 130W, Socket LGA 2011

  • For a graphics card, the Live Stream uses a Nvidia GeForce GT 520 Commercial Series PCI Express (seems a little weak, no?)

  • Ram is only 8 gigs (what do you expect for $8k?).
     

Like the Live Stream unit, I’ll likely be using Blackmagic for my capture cards. Here is a list of compatible hardware (including motherboards) that has been approved for BlackMagic products... 
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/detail/supportnotes/supportnote?sid=3945&pid=4013&snid=9568&isSDK=false&os=win

If something isn’t supported that you recommend, I’ll contact Blackmagic and ask them their opinion on compatibility.

The software I'll be using to run my switcher is vMix. Here is a list of their supported hardware... http://www.vmix.com.au/supported-hardware.aspx


Budget

My budget is $2,500 to $3,000 but would be willing to surpass that if you felt I needed to. But that should allow for something pretty sweet (I hope).


Software

  • I'll be using Windows 7 Professional 64-bit.

  • The software I'll be using to run my switcher is vMix.

 

Mandatory Hardware

  • The Mini Monitor is a 1-lane PCI Express card and is compatible with 4, 8 and 16 lane PCI Express slots. The card features two PCIe shields for both full height and low profile slots.

  • From what I've read in some forums, the cards use/need a lot of power, especially when you start adding multiple cards. I've also read (excuse me if this doesn't make any sense) that they perform better with PCI slots that work independently or are not connected to any of the other PCI slots (do they sometimes share?) Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. Like I said, I know just enough to sound stupid.

  • The Mini Monitor is a 4-lane PCI Express card and is compatible with 4, 8 and 16 lane PCI Express slots.


Mother Board

  • I have no clue. I would likely need something with 4 DIMM slots. I would like two USB 3.0 inputs.

  • Because each camera will have it's own Blackmagic card, plus the Blackmagic HDMI output card, plus the graphics card, I'll need 6 PCI slots.


Processor

  • According to vMix, the CPU is primarily used for audio/video compression and is used by the Recording and Streaming features in vMix. Highly compressed video formats such as MP4 (H264) require a fast CPU such as a Intel Core i7.

  • Like the video card, I want something fast, but I don't want to spend a fortune on the latest and greatest just to pick up a small amount of performance. Quad 4 i7 at a minimum I would think?

  • I would also like an aftermarket heat-sink. I'm fanatical about heat.


Video Card

  • vMix states that All DirectX 10 Compatible graphics cards are supported.

  • According to vMix, the faster the graphics card, the more inputs I can add and the higher the resolution I can use for streaming and recording.

  • I'm not looking to skimp here, but I don't want to spend a bundle for the latest and greatest only to get a little extra performance. If possible, I'd like something with at least 2 gigs of on-board memory and dual monitor ability.


Audio Card

  • I'm going to be using a mixing board for 4 or 5 sound sources and then sending them into the PC via USB. Would I want a dedicated sound card or would integrated audio be fine? Do you suggest a  different solution?



Memory

  • Would 64 gigs be ridiculous? I was thinking 32 gigs minimum.


Storage

  • Two 2TB HDD. One as my main and for archiving my productions and one for backup.


Optical Drive

  • I have a unit I can use.


Power Supply

  • I want something relatively quiet. Like I mentioned above, the BlackMagic cards use a lot of power so I'd rather have too much than too little.

  • I’d also like something that is energy efficient (relatively speaking).

  • It's important that I have plenty of power. From what I've read, the Blackmagic cards are energy hogs.


Case

  • Something cool (and cool) but functional.


Peripherals

Just something basic but not a POS.
 

Monitors

  • Not included in the price of the build, but I'd love some suggestions. They don't have to be studio quality for color correction and all that jazz. I just want something with decent quality, big (around 24" to 32") and reasonably priced.


Miscellaneous

  • I would like at least two USB 3.0 ports.

  • I want a system that is relatively quiet with good heat disbursement.

  • I’m not a fan of liquid cooling. I think wind chill works better.

  • I’m in the US and don’t have a retailer I prefer.

  • Not sure about overclocking. I don’t even know how to do that TBH.

  • I’ll also be using this system to run Adobe Suite (After Effects, PS, Premier).

  • This will be my first build, but I’ve been watching a ton of YT videos and feel confident that I can do this without breaking anything or injuring myself.
     

Seriously, you’re still reading this? And you’re sober? Holy F*ck. You, Sir (or Ma'am) are a die-hard-monster-mo-fo-take-no-prisoners-techie. And I like it.

Thanks for any and all help. It is really appreciated. If possible, please explain your decisions so that I can understand your thought process. This is important to me since I want to learn about this more. And by all means, don’t be shy about recommendations or opinions.

-lee

2

It looks like computation and RAM is the majority of what you need.  I know that a lot of people on these forums don't have much knowledge on this type of build.

What I'm thinking is how you're going to connect up all your cameras.  What ports do they connect through?

3

The cameras will be connected via Blackmagic capture cards. It's explained in my post.

Thanks!

4

Tried to create a build based off the livestream studio specs.  I don't see how that machine is worth 8k.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3p0hO

Hopefully someone can come along and tweak what needs to be tweaked, as my knowledge on this subject is limited.

5

Yeah, LiveStream is banking some serious cash off that machine. 

I should have clarified in my original post, but each camera will have its own Blackmagic card, plus the Blackmagic HDMI output card, plus the graphics card. So I'll need 6 PCI slots.

Can you tell me what x4, x16, x1, etc means with the PCI ports?

Thanks,
lee

 

6

It means the amount of PCIe lanes that are available in that slot.  x4 is fine for capture cards and cards that don't need a lot of bandwidth.  x1 is fine for stuff like wifi cards, and apparently your blackmagic card.  x8 and x16 are optimal for high performance graphics cards, since they need a lot of bandwidth to output good framerates, especially in games.  If you try to put a graphics card in a x4 or smaller slot, there is not enough bandwidth and you will experience some bottlenecking.  The x1 slots are often little slots when compared to the full length x16.  x4, x8 may appear to be as long as a x16, but they are in fact only wired up to their specified speeds.

There is a difference between PCI and PCIe x1, x4, x8, x16 slots.  PCI is an older standard that was used with some graphics cards(not a lot) and video capture cards and such.  It's old now, and is being replaced by PCI-express.  If you need PCI, you'll have to find a motherboard that has one.

7

Your post is quite a novel, I was a little unclear about the Black Magic cards.  Do you already have 4 of these cards or will these need to be included in the build price?  

8

Yeah, I didn't realize I wrote so much until I got done. I still need the BM cards, but I'm not including them in my build price.

Here's what I've come up on my own after hours of research... 
http://pcpartpicker.com/user/KuuKuu/saved/4kqR

Any and all advice would be appreciated. Specifically:

  • 32GB of ram or splurge on the 64? Or do I start with 32 and add more if I feel I need to?
  • Is there a less expensive CPU that would offer a lot more value for just a little less performance?
  • Is my video card a good choice? Would I be better off linking a couple of lesser cards?
  • How much power do you think I need? From what I've read, the Blackmagic capture cards are energy hogs and there is going to potentially be 5 or 6 of them. Is it "bad" to go with a power supply that supplies too much power? The partpicker list says I'm at around 650w. Do you think 850w would be fine or should I go to 1k?
  • Do you recommend a different case?

Thanks,

lee

9

- I don't know for this application.  I do know however that mixing and matching large ram kits will undoubtly cause compatibility issues.  RAM is matched at the factory so that the most similar sticks are put together.  The more RAM sticks there are, the harder it is to get them matched and verified.  Also, the higher the clockspeed of the RAM, the harder it is for them to get matched.  If you have the budget, I would probably go with a 64GB kit just in case, so that you can ensure that all your RAM works with the correct timings.  I however, do not know the RAM needs of a computer like this.

- 4930k is about as good as it gets.  Any lower and you'll be dropping cores or going to AMD, which I don't see why you would with your budget.

- I don't know what video card you need for your application.  Considering the 8k device linked in your original thread has a GT 520, it doesn't seem like a lot; just enough to run a display.

- I'm pretty sure 1k is overkill for a couple of blackmagic capture card.  1000w power supplies can often run 3 graphics cards.

- Don't know that case.  I like the Fractal Design Define R4, and if you're looking for a bigger case, the XL version may be what you are looking for.  These cases have alright ventilation, but foam padding everywhere and make the computer extremely quiet.

10

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it.

 

11

I've never heard of that Live Stream thing or vMix, but I've used a variety of different toasters, from VT4 to Tricaster to a TCXD850. You think $8k is expensive, try $25k. And as pricey as those things can get, it's still not unheard of to bog one down. This will be a blasty blast when your feed cuts out because you skimped and went with consumer parts.

From experience I can tell you that among the most important things you can spec for this rig are a dumb, hard backup switcher and the DAs to feed a few essential sources. Don't forget a beefcake UPS, either. You really would be doing yourself a favor to look for a dual redundant power supply as well.

Maybe I missed it, but I'm not clear on whether you're recording each separate stream and the final mix, or just the final stream. In my experience a separate record of each camera feed is essential if you do any post production, though that can possibly be handled at the camera or externally. It's probably best to record externally using separate devices from the switcher, both for reliability reasons and to offload all that work.

The graphics card is most likely just going to just be for the switcher UI right? so as long as it can handle a lot of video streams, it doesn't necessarily have to be a 3D powerhouse. Something with several outputs is nice if you are monitoring all your feeds on the switcher rather than with separate monitors for each input.

I was thinking you might want to go with a dual socket system if you can swing the price. I did a little research to back up my intuition and sure enough, a somewhat recent (2012) model TriCaster (TCXD850X) has "two Intel i7 quad core 3.4 GHz processors" (source). I wonder though whether vMix is optimized for SMP or more heavily relies on single threaded execution speed. I'll have to look more at that software.

 

I'm excited to see where you take this thing, if you do a build log I'll absolutely follow it.

12

Thanks for the comments! I'm excited to see how this works out too, but scared sh*tless since this is uncharted territory for me. My biggest fear is that I will have a failure at some point.

I don't necessarily think $8k is a lot of money given that this technology 10 years ago was just a wet dream. I just think LiveStream is bending people over with what they are offering for $8k. My build has the same board and CPU but 58GB more memory and a much better graphics card... for half as much. I'd have to think the overall build is better too.

But people pay a premium for convenience and I've spent countless hours trying to do this myself. But I want to be educated so that I can fix things myself when needed, do upgrades, etc.

Here are some systems offered by vMix in case you're interested... http://www.vmix.com.au/systems/

While the software allows you to record four separate cameras at once (either clean or dirty), I won't be doing that (though I might experiment for YouTube videos). For now, I'm just going to be streaming 720p while simultaneously recording a 1080p version for the archives. I've included a 500GB SSD in my build list and I'll be capturing my 1080 version there. I'll be able to adjust both the bit rate of the stream and my recording via the software.

As far as the graphics card... I'm not going to pretend that I know exactly what I'm talkin about, because I don't. But according to vMix, the faster the graphics card, the more inputs/cameras I can add and the higher the resolution I can use for streaming and recording. The CPU is primarily used for audio/video compression and is used by the Recording and Streaming features in the software.

The software is very cool. There are others on the market, but I've been drawn to this one because of the price, features, and the company seems to be on top of things with support and making the software better. There really isn't too much you can't do.

At one time I was thinking about purchasing this Roland Switcher... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=983417&gclid=CIiTpZrM170CFUYV7AodWU0Agg&Q=&is=REG&A=details But I decided that going the PC route was better (at least for me).

Based on my research, the system I'm building should easily be able to handle what I need it to do (plus it will make using Adobe Suite an absolute dream). I've seen people in the vMix forum running machines with i5s, 4 quads, 4 gigs of memory, and a basic graphics card. That might be a stretch though. 

I would love any advice on my parts pick, especially on memory and my power supply... http://pcpartpicker.com/user/KuuKuu/saved/4kqR

I'll try to keep my progress updated. I'm sure I'll need some help/advice when I go to do the actual build. Nothing ever goes smoothly. I may even do a video to help others who want to build their own machine. I haven't been able to find much on YouTube and that would have been really helpful to me.

Thanks,

Lee

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http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3q0fr

Doubt you'll notice a difference between this build and yours... except for the $600 price tag shrinkage and 5x faster storage...

And yes, I have serious doubts about needing 64GB of ram... 

14

+1 From DrunkenPanda, that was almost identical to the list that I made.  There's something to be said about good taste in computer hardware :).  The only difference was that I spec'ed in 32gb of gskill ripjaws ram @ 2400mhz, a 770gtx, and a corsair 750D case. 

 

15

Thanks for the parts list, Panda. A couple of questions...

  • Do you recommend I drop the SSD if the Seagate is comparable in speed? I was going to use the SSD solely as my boot drive and to write my 1080P files to while filming.
  • I'm paranoid about not having enough power. Do you think 750W will be adequate if I have all 7 of the PCIe slots active?
  • I choose the P9X79-E over its sister board because it has one extra PCIe slot which allows me to add one additional capture card. Other than being $100 more expensive, do you have any issue with the P9X79-E?
  • Is the performance gain from the 780 graphics card worth the premium or would the 770 offer plenty of juice for a more reasonable price?

Thank you!

lee 

16

The SSD isn't necessary with hybrid drives, as they're just a bit slower... I would consider getting a small 120-250GB SSD, however, just for a boot/core program drive (just for the peace of mind on failure rates)...

SSHDs are relatively new technology, so I wouldn't count on them to be bulletproof... a quality regular SSD is bulletproof...

About the PSU... I can't imagine those cards have much power draw... I think 750w would be fine... especially with a XFX or Seasonic PSU... feel free to get an 850w for more overhead... but 750w is kind of the cutoff before you start paying premiums...

No issue with the other board... just trying to cut costs, and that board had enough PCIe slots...

Well, you're talking about paying $100 more for a motherboard for one extra PCI slot... the 780's $100 more than a good 770, and it's a LOT bigger of a jump... especially in something like this, which is a premium build that could certainly use up to 3-4 monitors in the future, I'd get the 780...(or 4GB 770 with plans to SLI) I didn't read ALL of the first post... did you mention what you were using program-wise?

17

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3qo9m

Cut it down another couple hundred... put in an 850w PSU just for peace of mind... changed the 780 to a non-reference model... changed monitors to cheaper 27" IPS models... downgraded SSD to 250GB... really, still not any performance drop-off... just a LOT cheaper :P

18

Panda, thank you so much for the advice.

The switcher software will likely be vMix. It offers a good mix of cost, features, and support. I'll also be running Adobe Suite on this too (After Effects, Photoshop, Premier) as well as Cinema 4D. 

19

If you look into the Samsung 840 Evo, they just dropped in price (500gb SSD for $244) and the speed is a hair less than the pro series but literally half the price.  For the 770 I would recommend the EVGA FTW for a few reasons: good factory overclocked speeds, aftermarket cooling solutions that are quiet and efficient, good amount cheaper, and to be honest they are damn pretty.  While the 770 is a step down, the EVGA 770's now run with 4gb and the bandwidth won't necessarily be an issue since you are using 1080 monitors. The 780 while it is nice (thats what I run) I don't know if it will be worth the extra money since you are not running 1440,1600, or 4k screens.  That being said, if you have an extra $100-$200 I would wait a few weeks for the 6GB EVGA 780's.  This would future proof your build and you can never go "too awesome" when purchasing computer parts, lol.  I am going to get on my Soap box for a minute and highly recommend that you don't skimp on a good, efficient, and trusted name brand power supply and UPS.  I have lost 10+ plus hour renders too many times due to me being lazy and not investing in a UPS.  I apologize if someone has already mentioned this* but I would suggest a few 2TB hard drives to run a raid on so you have a plan for drive failures. 

Good luck and as you can see from the posts there are a TON of viable routes to take when looking at building a computer like this.  

 

20

Yes, I'm definitely going to purchase a UPS. I need to read up on how RAID works.

Thanks for the advice!