Millenium Films Sues 10 Million Expendables 3 Downloaders

Community Tech Policy & News
21

And I feel like you are ignoring the hypocracy of these middlemen and the harm they are inflicting on the artists themselves.

That isnt the point of this post, or the thread.

You're trying to argue about things that aren't an argument; Hanging up on literal definitions. Going back to my previous statement; you can compare it to a movie theater, or a fair, or a concert or something.

You go there, sneak in, and get the thing that is being sold for free, illegally.

Getting something for free illegally. It may not be theft by definition, but you are taking money out of the hands of the people selling it.

22

Can we sue them for making a terrible movie?

^ This
23

Hanging up on literal definitions is what our Judicial branch of government does all the time.

24

Just wait until we're able to duplicate matter on a nano scale.

We're in for a shit storm.

25

Its exactly the point of my posts, infact it is the central point. And you are defending these people whom are only perpetuating their market position which has become technologically obsolete, only because of the very likely anti-competitive deals they have with major music distribution platforms and their lobbying.

Furthermore theft is a very clearly defined word both within the english language and the legal system and is entirely different to the legal concept of 'copyright infringement' or colloquially 'internet piracy'. The word 'theft' is generally only used by proponents of the current state protections of digital media, and the existing modes of distribution and DRM in an attempt to over-exaggerate and demonize 'copyright infringement'.

And once again you are not stealing anyone's money by making an unauthorized copy of a legally protected work. At no stage in the process of copying someone's legally protected work, is anything taken without permission. The best you can say is that it may have resulted in a lost sale, although the same argument could be used for second hand games, movies, lent media etc..etc..

You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but it exists, it isn't going anywhere and it isn't theft, although I can not say the same about these greedy middlemen, their time will come and they know it! They are on there way out as an industry and I don't think any amount of lobbying and legal action will stop it.

26

Well they probably just try to make up for the shitty opening weeks of the film. It didn't sell well and they are kinda trying to blame pirates for that. They seem to forget that those pirates wouldn't have seen the movie anyway if it didn't get leaked.

27

The whole distribution is just broken. We ain't living in the time where movies came on analog tapes and rolls. This is the digital age and we expect things to be instantanious. The industry is slowly starting to realize this as incentives like Netflix, HBO go and HULU are getting more and more popular. 

There is way more money for the industry to be had via those kinda services than they could ever get by retail distribution. Imagine if movies got released at day one on services like Netflix. The entire world would be able to see it for a small amount of money. They would reach a immense audience and thus make way more money. 

Another thing that needs to happen is a unified Netflix. Imagine if the entire movie industry developed a platform equal to Netflix and put literally everything they make or have made on there. Imagine if they would then ask something like 30$ a month. I bet every single pirate would delete its downloaded movies, sell their countless tb's of HDD's and gladly pay 30$. I know I would. The convenience would be so much greater than anything piracy could offer me.

The movie industry would make even more money than they do right now. And no 30$ isnt way to little. I know I don't spend more than that on Cinema tickets a month. 

28

You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but it exists

You really don't read my posts do you? I've clearly stated that i torrent files myself.

I can not say the same about these greedy middlemen

Again, I'm not talking to you about this because it was not in the original post, nor did I post anything about it, nor was it anything to do with the post I replied to. 

The best you can say is that it may have resulted in a lost sale, although the same argument could be used for second hand games, movies, lent media

Torrenting is on a much larger scale than sharing a video, or reselling it. You cant even compare it to that. 30K or more people per movie/game is a lot more than gamestop.

Furthermore, the word "theft" beside; You are getting something that you are supposed to pay for, for free. And the "lost sale" you speak so little about has a big impact. Those 30K (im using 30 for ease, its a LOT more, but you fuckers don't seed) people would have spent over 300K dollars if they went to the movies to see it. Say that ten million people downloaded the movie (Which I highly doubt, because that movie was crap) That's 100 Million dollars in "lost sales".

It doesnt matter if you "stole" a physical CD worth 5 cents or not, the value of the movie is what has been stolen. 

Now, if you have any arguments besides "it can't be stolen, its not physical.", then I would love to hear them. If you're just going to be repeating the same argument for the fourth time, then please don't waste any more of my time.

 

EDIT:

ts exactly the point of my posts, infact it is the central point.

No, I didn't reply to your post in the beginning. I replied to another user that stated people shouldn't be paid for art. (in a nutshell). So no, it is not the point of my original argument, or any central point. In fact, none of your argument has anything to do with what I posted. You just posted to try to argue. And I'm not going to continue to discuss this tangent of a debate with you, because it is irrelevant to my reply.

29

I have a possible low tech solution for those that are already on their list. Just download the movie 15 times more at the same time. Then you could claim that it is more likely that somebody else was using your IP. I mean, why would you download the same movie 15 times? You don't know what's going on. You had nothing to do with this. If they send you 15 notices, then clearly something is wrong with their system :D

30

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner here.

31

If I may interject something here, how is downloading torrents any different than letting your friend borrow a DVD? I don't watch many DVDs anymore (other than the once in a long time) but if I choose to let a friend take my DVD home and watch it is that illegal as well? How is letting you borrow a physical copy of a game or movie I purchased any different than some guy sharing an a file on the Internet?

 

Then there was the time where blockbuster and other local movie store were famous (renting out DVDs, VHS, Video Games). I know for sure that my local store was not paying the developer/publisher/artist every time someone rented something. They payed for their original copy and then made money by renting it out to you on a daily basis. Did this not take away from the content creators income? I personally remember plenty of times when I'd see a trailer for a movie and say that looks good but not good enough to go spend $10 - $12 at the theaters, I'll just wait till it comes out on DVD (and then NOT BUY it but RENT it). Why wasn't that illegal? 

A lot of this stuff is no different today it's just been moved online.

32

Two reasons for this. One, places like blockbuster needed a rentals license, and yes, part of the profit did go to the devs/producers. At least the legitimate ones. 

Two, torrenting, and file sharing isnt the same as leting someone borrow something. If you watch something, and let someone else watch it, that is one copy between the two of you. 

If you torrent it, it is now TWO copies between the two of you. 

 

There are different laws about publicly displaying content that are crap, but the major law involved here is involving COPYING the content; which is what happens when you torrent it.

33

Ah, I see, that makes more sense. So i would be as if the Local DVD store offered to sell me a copy after I rent a movie but the copy he sells me is a copy of his copy ....  he still has his copy and I now have mine.

34

Duplicate all the actors.

Make your own movies.

35

Yep.

36

If your business model requires you to sue 10 million people, then your business-model is wrong. You are essentially using the justice system to extort money from the public, there's no better way to inspire an angry mob, that will consider pirating your next movie as an act of righteous civil disobedience.

Besides making a copy of digital information costs almost nothing, so it's worth almost nothing. You can make almost infinite copies, but the demand is limited, which results in a market value that is near Zero. Going against market laws or trying to introduce artificial scarcity is going to ruin you.

If you want to have a business you have to reduce actual scarcity in the market. For movies & tv shows that translates to crowd-funding. Because in the digital world there is no more scarcity once it's made, the scarcity lies in the things aren't being made but are desired by many "Want to see the next episode/part ? go help fund it, or it'll never happen"

Hollywood knows how to capture a their fans, they have allot of franchises they could leverage, they could end their hostile relationship with the Internet and actually see file-sharing for what it is: free advertising & distribution.

As far as "piracy" is concerned IMHO: that's the market correcting itself. All the legal nonsense that is going on is just old people with too much money being unwilling to adapt to change.

37

As Logan and Wendel have stated over and over again it is a distribution problem.  If distributors would just stream there new releases over nextflix as soon as they come out instead of waiting months after the fact then people wouldn't be as inclined to get torrents because they most likely already have netfix or amazon prime and could just go there to watch it.  And if they say that it would hurt their DVD/Blu-Ray sales I call bull, in fact the only way to get the special features would be on those mediums so if they like the movie enough they would go buy it, that's almost double the profit per person.  I know that's far over ideal but you see my point.  Embracing the new technologies for distribution would help, not hurt their market.  I have not torrented a game since steam became a thing, and the only media I have torrented at all in the past several years is fan subbed anime.  Because the distrobution has gotten slightly better I don't feel the need to torrent.  I remember I used to torrent Doctor Who because it came out one week before released in America, but now through amazon I can get it the night it is released.  And the main reason I do the anime is once again because of the distribution issues, however crunchyroll has made a difference on that one as well.  And if I do torrent an anime I will usually let the series run on crunchyroll even If Im not watching because the adds will still play so in a way I am still supporting the content creators.