They’ve been having issues the last few days and no ones stuff has been building apparently. They said it was fixed now?
Well, when you have such a huge influx of new users, you’re bound to run into problems. Just give them time to scale.
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Just got done using a shared runner. Their servers were being hit pretty hard. Would take as long as 15 minutes before a runner was free, now its less than 30 seconds.
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Speed, uploads, deployments. I only have two repos on GitLab that I’ve not touched since I pushed them, so I have no first hand experience on this. This is what I’ve heard from others on the internetz realm.
This was way before the Microsoft thing. It could all be old news.
Interesting stuff.
@SgtAwesomesauce @Eden no plans to kill Atom. Looks like they’re going to support both Atom and VS Code.
He says a lot of what has already been said (that no one listens to), folks at Microsoft can use whatever system they want whenever they want, no intentions to kill GitHub culture, etc.
Watch the newest asknoah he has an interview with them.
Sorry for the long post, but I’ll probably throw the below on my blog, maybe…
Microsoft buying GitHub does not sit well with me, and I have moved my repositories from GitHub to avoid interaction with Microsoft.
Microsoft is moving away from selling software as their business to renting out infrastructure(Azure) and software as a service(Office365). They’re doing this as it is a lot more profitable. But with the Windows Telemetry issues, the inability to opt out and the constant settings resetting with every update. It worries me because they’re likely data mining users on their platforms.
Therefore I’m concerned with Microsoft having access to my code repositories and other GitHub user data. I don’t trust them not to data mine me and my public and private repositories for information, such as the database/cloud services I use for the products I am developing. So they can tailor advertisement for one of their services to me.
Microsoft is known for the phrase “Embrace, extend, and extinguish.” some may argue Microsoft over the recent years has changed. Embracing open source hence their contribution to the Linux kernel and open-sourcing multiple in-house tools. Although I’d say, they are doing this for personal gain.
Microsoft is shifting markets, in these new markets they are operating in Linux is not a threat. Like it is to Windows in the server market. That is why they have changed to embrace open source.
Azure is their cloud platform. If they failed to offer Linux instances, then they’d be neglecting a significant market segment who want to run Linux. They need to tweak and fix the Linux kernel to achieve maximum performance on their hardware. Therefore committing their fixes and alterations to the Linux kernel project means less work for them when a new kernel version comes out.
Open sourcing their in-house tools gets them free development from the open source community. Looking at what they open source it is never something which could affect their bottom line in any way. They haven’t open sourced Windows or Office or anything to harm their software as a solution platforms.
A change in Microsoft’s nature might also be contributed to a significant amount of money they gave to the Linux Foundation. But this bought them a seat on the foundation, allowing them to steer the development of the Linux kernel. Possibly tailoring the development choices made to ones they preferer, for example, to meet the needs of their cloud platform.
You could also point to their inclusion of the Linux subsystem into Windows as how they are changing. But this I would argue is a part of their “Embrace, extend, and extinguish.” ethos. Removing reasons to use other operating systems like GNU/Linux, keeping you in their Windows ecosystem for data mining.
I don’t believe Microsoft’s nature has changed. I don’t trust them not to data mine me on the services of theirs I use, and I don’t like their attitude towards people, such as with force Windows upgrading/restarts and the forced telemetry. The only reason recently they have been playing nice with the open source movement is that it has been beneficial for them. So, therefore, I wouldn’t engage with them.
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Yes, they are doing exactly this. I got a bit of an impression that you don’t necessarily agree with this way of thinking? Id like to ask if you think there’s anything wrong with this?
Microsoft is doing this for personal gain. Opening a lot of their tools, building more open code, engaging in the wider market, buying GitHub is for ‘personal’ gain (or corporate gain i guess?). Now they likely aren’t doing it just for personal gain, but that’s definitely an incentive.
I’d disagree, it does affect their bottom line, it gets more people using their tools, their platforms, and integrating their stuff into other companies infrastructure, that makes them money. so it affects their bottom line, positively.
And again, I don’t think there’s any issue with that. That’s exactly what Red Hat does, they don’t do it for the fuzzy warm feeling, they do it for their personal gain.
You need to get out of the 90s with this. WSL provides them a platform to allow developers to run Linux tools on Windows platforms, it opens up their platform to a larger audience, it opens up their tools and systems to a larger audience, and that means more money and more relevance.
You don’t see anyone accusing wine of trying to EEE windows?
Microsoft have their own kernel developers submitting their own code, it doesn’t take priority over for example Red Hat developers or Intel developers, if the code is good it generally gets added. Even RMS is not on the side of the MS conspiracy theorists on this, hes fully on board with Microsoft contributing to Free Software.
The vileness of a number of “open source enthusiasts” the past week in all honesty has kind of solidified the sad sad description of Linux users being elitist gatekeepers. If we got rid of Microsoft from open source code, wed lose an absolutely huge amount of contributors and code.
My advice to people would be to not underestimate what they bring to the table, and be very careful about mixing actual legitimate concerns with 90s conspiracies, because once you do your argument can easily lose credibility.
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Hey friend! I understand your concerns, I feel some of their stuff is invasive and definitely questionable at best. I put my trust in MS because they’ve never let me down, so Win10 has never messed with me. I’ve dug around in GPEDIT to disable some of the stuff, too.
That being said, their development platforms are a lot more flexible. Azure does not have nearly the telemetry that Windows does, and VS Code you can opt out entirely I believe. Same with Visual Studio.
Seems to be very common. I’m not sure what it’ll take for people to “move on” from the Ballmer days. They’ve practically done everything but open source Windows itself…
Woah, C#, PowerShell, and .NET? That IS their bottom line.
I disagree. Microsoft was not competing with Linux with this move, they were competing with Apple. Now Microsoft is THE developer platform (or it could/should be, anyway). Linux desktop was not a threat to them. Apple is. To EEE Linux would shoot themselves in the foot, as you said earlier, nearly 50% of Azure space is Linux (probably more now, with their Container PaaS).
Fair enough! They’ll be here if you decide to come back 
After doing a bit of a .NET/C# boot camp, using Windows 10 more, using WSL, VS Code, and VS 2017, I’ve grown a bit more fonder of them. PowerShell is an amazing tool, for devs and admins. I think the doom and gloom is a bit much, personally. This should be a positive, but I can’t force people to agree with me.
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Linux desktop is not a threat to anyone, the unfortunate truth as much as anyone would like it to be otherwise, its just not got the people behind it to be a threat what so ever.
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I don’t disagree with companies making money. The point I was trying to make was that Microsoft hasn’t had a change of nature, they don’t believe in freedom software. They are contributing because it helps them make money. So, therefore, I’m keeping an eye on them.
Sorry, my mistake my writing wasn’t clear. I meant anything they open sourced has no ability to affect their bottom line negatively.
But I think what I meant and what you understood both prove my point. If they actually believed in freedom software, they’d open source MS Office and various other products that would affect their bottom line negatively. But they only open source what is beneficial to them.
I wasn’t born until the 90’s were almost over so…
Yes, the Linux subsystem is nice for people who use Windows. But my point I was trying to make was that it was beneficial for them to do so. They’re embracing Linux and removing reasons for people to leave. I’d say that’s the first step of “Embrace, extend, and extinguish.” no?
The only reason people use Wine is because of non-freedom software.
Yes I know they aren’t given priority but with Microsoft becoming a top donor and a top contributor, possibly more so in the future I’m worried about the influence they’re gaining and how reliant the money and contributions may become.
What I’m trying to say is I believe they don’t care about freedom software. Because if they did they’d at least let you opt out of telemetry and other basic freedoms. So I’m keeping an eye on them, because yes currently their contributions have been positive, but I’m worried it may become negative.
I hope you’re not referring to me about the vileness haha…
Obviously, GNU/Linux is not a threat to the desktop market. But in server market it is. Also, you have to consider the operating system of choice for developers, because currently everything I open source I only provide installation instructions etc for GNU/Linux.
Microsoft wouldn’t let you disable telemetry, for me that tells me alot. Even if you go looking around at registry level do you believe it will truly disable it? Also on their platforms such as Office 365 and Azure you can’t be sure what they’re collecting.
Sorry, I don’t use any of those. So you will have to explain how releasing the source code negatively affects their bottom line.
Maybe it is just the different circles we run in. But most of the developers I know either use OSX, BSD or GNU/Linux. So for me I took it as a move against GNU/Linux. I think it is like what I said in the post above, it was about getting developers to use Windows and therefore develop for Windows. Because I currently use GNU/Linux full time and only provide installation/usage instructions etc for GNU/Linux.
Fair enough. I care about freedom software and I don’t trust Microsoft, not to data mine me on their products or platforms.
Yes. Windows 10 is not the only service with telemetry, and they’re not the only one’s that prevent opting out. No, that isn’t an excuse, but I’m sure you use countless other services without reading too much into their Terms and Conditions.
You use GitLab? They trust Microsoft with their service. That tells ME a lot about Microsoft. They’re chipping away at AWS, not through EEE, but through fantastic products.
I’m not really sure how to answer this. You named yourself Microshit and you don’t know what C# is, or the .NET Framework, or PowerShell? Maybe change it to Windowshit?
Everything you do in Windows after 7 is PowerShell on the backend. It’s Windows shell language that is much deeper than Bash in a lot of respects. You can interface with text AND objects. It’s insanely powerful, and a ton of admins and developers rely on it daily to automate and build their infrastructure.
Their entire platform stands on the .NET framework. C# is a language that rivals (and surpasses, according to some) Java.
Hell, they’ve even got F# to compete with Scala and others.
I mean, anti-anything isn’t really my style, so we’re definitely in different circles. The developers I know are on every platform. Windows, OS X, Linux (desktop and servers). It isn’t a move against Linux, it’s a move against Apple. Apple had all the tools that attracted developers to their platform. Now Windows does. Remember what a pain in the ass it was to build Ruby on Windows? No more. Hate how long it takes for your VM to spin up? Now you have Kali, Ubuntu, Debian, openSuse, and Fedora running native, interfacing with NT Kernel. You can call PowerShell cmdlets to pull Hyper-V or VMware names, pipe through Bash, and pipe through ssh or scp in one shell, in a single command. You can run Docker through whatever tool you prefer, you can compile code from source with gcc or clang. You can install Ruby on Rails, OCaml, Haskell, and ASM. All on Windows. Sorry man, as much as I love Linux, these are all sounding like pros to me.
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No one ever said they were, and the truth is (unfortunately) that hardly anyone is for software freedom. Open source was coined to get people away from the idea of software freedom, open source is about open code only, not the freedoms it may or may not bring. It’s worth keeping that in mind.
There are very very few companies or individuals who have that goal in mind any more.
No because there’s no extinguish, in fact, if you wanted a company that was following that methodology to some extent you’d look at Google, who are making Fuchsia which looks to have the goal of completely replacing linux on the primary platform Linux runs on. They are litterally building an OS to replace Linux now they have the majority market.
On the other hand Microsoft are building tools to integrate both Windows and Linux to cooperate more easily with each other.
No they don’t, they care about open source, not Free Software, I agree with you completely on that point.
In my work its the right tool for the job, we use most OS’ depending on the task, including Windows, Linux, OSX, BSD.
And those other products which collect telemetry or additional information I don’t agree with I don’t use them either. About online services, I don’t use any which could have the potential to gather sensitive information about myself.
In regards to GitLab I’m looking at running my own instance on my hardware, and I’ll be looking to see if there telemetry or data collecting. If there is even when running my own instances, I’ll use something else.
I know what they are, I don’t use any of them though. Which was why I asked the question, how does releasing the source code of any of these affect Microsoft’s bottom line negatively?
Because I’m not sure it does, which was my point. Microsoft’s contributions to open source has been selectively so as only to affected them positively; they haven’t contributed anything which would impact them negatively, like open source Office 365 so I can run my own instance.
I’ve no idea about development on Windows, I’ve used GNU/Linux for as long as I’ve been a ‘developer’.
I never said the Linux subsystem on Windows wasn’t positive. I acknowledge it is extremely beneficial for those using Windows. I wasn’t arguing about Windows vs GNU/Linux; I was listing my reasons why I don’t trust Microsoft or believe they have changed their nature. Which is why I don’t want to use their products as I care about my privacy.
Windows is still the dominant desktop and it holds a huge foothold in the server space. As much as the “Linux runs the internet” gets passed around, Microsoft Windows servers dominate the enterprise and anywhere .NET is used. Releasing the source code not only allows contributes from the community, but it allows for attack simulations with the source code. No guess work needed, you find a vulnerability in PowerShell and you have malicious intentions, you can go to town. They took a risk, as does everyone when they open up their code.
.NET is the Microsoft product. PowerShell is the Microsoft tool. C# is the Microsoft language (one could argue PowerShell is the MS language). Sorry, I don’t know how else to say it. Microsoft isn’t just Windows, they rely on the developer community to help them along. The tools they open sourced are their bread winners. And the community at large is making them better.
You do now, it’s exactly the same as it is on Linux :grin;
Just with Visual Studio. Arguably the one of the best debuggers in town.
I would also like to say, you should check out some .NET devs or people that use Windows as their primary workstation. I understand you have a trust issue, but with Linux, GNU, and some FOSS enthusiasts, there is an elitism, toxicity, and everyone seems to have a chip on their shoulder. You don’t get that vibe much with these folks. CodingBlocks.NET is a great example. They have a huge community, some Mac, some Linux, and some Windows guys. They just kick back and talk about code and systems. They don’t go off on each other about telemetry or who’s system is better.
Don Jones, Jeffrey Snover, Chrisy LeMaire, and others, they don’t put others down because of the desktop environment they use or the operating system or editor they use. It really is a different culture.
You said earlier we come from different worlds. Sorry, I prefer the one I’m in. This one bothers me more often than not, and I don’t really feel welcome. I got into this to play games and geek out over electronics. I’ve been very fortunate that I’ve been able to earn a great deal of money while doing it too. I agree with @Eden that it’s a best tool for the job thing, and not an us versus them thing. I’m still here to have a great time, and some people try their hardest to make that not be the case.
Not talking about you specifically, just kind of reflecting and rambling. Anyway, that’s all I have to say really.
Oh I missed this. Not you, I think I know where your coming from. People who want Free Software I get, which I think is where you seem to stand mainly. I think those that shout against Microsoft while using GitHub is a bit rediculous, and there have been other Linux users elsewhere who she really shown there terrible colours. I mean RMS has a better stance on Microsoft than them.
Funnily enough, I try to avoid Google as much as possible as well.
I can see Microsoft implementing the Linux subsystem and regaining server share and regaining developers, combined with their increasing influence in the Linux kernel as a start towards them not eradicating Linux but co-opting it.
When I was using the term freedom software, I was mainly using it to imply they don’t care about my privacy, nor the open source aspect.
I’d argue that they don’t care about open source like I’ve already said they’ve only released what has impacted them positively and not a thing which could affect them negatively.
Which is a fact I’d use to argue their nature hasn’t changed and hence why I don’t trust them.
Open sourcing code actually has no effect; if not improves security actually. I can go dig out the paper if you’re interested?
I’m not sure you’re understanding me. Open sourcing these products has not negatively affected them. Which you’ve reiterated through one of my original point of free development from the community.
And as I’ve said in the posts above the fact they’ve only open sourced what has positively affected them, and not what could affect them negatively to me shows their nature hasn’t changed. Therefore it is one of the reasons I don’t trust them.
Sorry if you felt I was being toxic or elitist. I was just trying to let everyone know from the perspective of someone whos left GitHub because of Microsoft why I have.
As much as I want it to be, 2018 is not the year of the Linux desktop.