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Lunduke hour hosts RMS


#21

It really does, yeah. It is more tolerable by speeding it up to 1.5x. :fast_forward:

I'm still going to use google when duckduckgo doesn't know and I also won't stop watching stuff on amazon prime. But I totally agree that DRM should die in a fire and that free software is the way to go wherever possible. I disagree with him about mastodon, that they should basically advertise for freedom and stuff. It is way more important to have lots of people using free software than telling them about the philosophy behind it. That can turn people off.


#22

Bad personal hygiene or poor presentation of oneself detracts from any message said person is trying to deliver, no matter how important. There is nothing small minded about your audience expecting you to show some respect.


#23

Honestly, I only noticed what the clip was trying to show when I read the title, after finishing the video without understanding what was the point of isolating that statement and ending it abruptly. Even though the camera doesn't show anything but Stallman himself.
I'd say that if someone isn't paying attention to the content, that person shouldn't find excuses for it in other persons' behavior.


#24

I agree but that is a different criticism than the criticism of the ideas. That is a criticism on communication methods and how to serve the ideas better.

It is small minded to take personal quirks (no matter how stupid) as disrespect. What you see as disrespect might be taken completely different by other people anyway.


#25

Ah.. yep... and if I'm being called small-minded by some people for taking a position on something, I must be doing something right. :slight_smile: Ah well. Won't be the last time it happens.

(I suppose that might be his attitude as well)


#26

We also need to not take criticism/opinions so personal. If someone describes a position as small minded, it is not a personal attack to those that might be thinking otherwise...


#27

RMS and Eben Mogelen both have pretty much the exact same message but both voice is and present it slightly differently. That doesn't detract on either message in my opinion. Obviously many people agree with the message that gets put across of we just wouldn't have free software.

People obsessing of RMS' feet maybe just have a foot fetish.

I think its a little more sad that a few people would rather detract from the messages in the video by talking about feet and how someone talks rather than what they're talking about.

So if people have actually watched it, maybe we can discuss it?


#28

I would give some credit to Lunduke for that. Even if it seems that RMS was leading the discussion Lunduke did very well in poking the whole interview to the right direction. He has done this with other guests as well. I am starting to appreciate him as a host...


#29

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Richard Stallman, is in fact, GNU/Richard Stallman.


#30

I told him how to fix it.. over a day ago so..


#31

GNU+Richard Stallman


#32

This is a popular tactic these days, especially in politics. If the other guy is loosing the argument, he invariably launches a personal attack on his opponent, hoping to derail and/or discredit him.

We need to learn to recognize such tactics and call bullshit on them, whenever we encounter them!


#33

This is generally known as 'ad-hominem' or attacking the person, not the argument/view. We should aspire to look for the points that fall into the higher categories of the pyramid below. If the argument is nearer the bottom, then feel free to ignore it.

I think I've posted this on these forums before, but it's very useful as a reminder as it's so easy to get caught up in disliking a person rather than what they stand for and is how populists often do well - they can sometimes be incredibly charismatic.


#34

The challenge is that it is often hard to listen to a raving lunatic even if he is right. Linus Torvald is another one that goes on the occasional rant that people think should be published to the internet. I suspect that both of these guys would rather their rants were left out of the youtube search lists but sadly they tend to be the most popular and come to the top of the search lists. Quiet, thoughtful monologues seem to get a lot less hits.


#35

And yet you chose than language to describe the person?


I find it such a shame that threads like these devolve into attacking a person or dismissing a person entirely just because their personality or presentation or appearance don't agree with someone.

It's very disapointing. @BGL makes a good point of what this is. And its a common tactic these days by social Justice warrior types to attack anyone who differs from their beliefs. (not that anyone here is one, but just pointing out the similarity)

You don't know him, your an outside observer looking in occasionally seeing information about a specific subject without additional context.

Lundukes video does some interesting things. Not only is there a number of important subjects touched on, but there's a tiny insight into the person speaking about them as well. Who knew what TV show he liked, why he doesnt watch tv any more? his music taste? Its interesting to know but also gives background to the person that i bet few ever knew.

Do you know why he thinks proprietary software is an injustice?
Or why he believes to strongly in it? Why he words it as an injustice?
Or why hes so adamant about user freedom?
Do you know why the GPL and GNU exist?

It's not some one liner answer about having the code, there's a deep rooted human reasoning behind it that goes further than just software.

RMS in some ways even points to this in the interview himself, if all software was Free Software and that issue was solved what would he do. Help put an end to other injustices, and i would imagine they would align around the same philosophical concepts.

People like Stallman and Moglen have fought strongly for software freedom for users because very few other people do, and considering how ingrained technology is in every day life, the fact that this isn't a bigger issue is highly disturbing.

People wouldn't normally give up their freedoms, software slipped under the door unnoticed and never gave people their freedoms in the first place and now its everywhere and we have very little control over it.

Perhaps what he says shouldn't just be dismissed because your not fond of his presentation of which you only presume and guess at why he presents like he does. And perhaps you should listen to the points made and look much deeper into why those points are being made?

(you being the you all who it may concern)


#36

For those of us who have been listening to rms's rants for more the last 40 years and have come to the firm decision that he is a very intelligent, highly motivated, wingnut. It is boring when someone comes to defend his sanity. This is nothing like argumentum ad hominem. He has a list of strong points that he has been repeating for many years. We have heard them. Some agree, some disagree, many have gotten drunk and debated them. School children continue to talk about him. Like Noam Chomsky he is an iconoclast. I tend to find Noam a great deal more entertaining.


#37

Hes definitely on a single purpose cause, so if you've heard him as long as both of us have you know everything he says (usually, but there's a lot he doesnt always say that people don't pick up usually because their drowned out by the foot cheese activists to have looked for anything else). That said, what I find in threads like this is many people dismiss the points without having even understood them which is becoming quite common lately.

I'm also not saying he isn't sane or insane.

But I always find the word choices interesting, very few ever respond to the content more the person. rants, and wingnut to pick your choice words for example, though in this case we are talking more about the person right now (though we could talk about the issues if we wanted?), but there still interesting word choices nun the less. Stallmans word choices are also interesting in this respect as well.

Hes definitely not the most elegant speaker when you compare him to someone like Eben Moglen who both share the same views on free software. But id hazard a guess a significant number of people who replied to this thread attacking or criticizing the person and not the content didn't even bother to watch it? Because if they did, I'm surprised were not talking about El Latido De La Memoria, the Prisoner, or something like that.


#38

With regards to the discussion on RMS I recommend reading "Free as in Freedom - Richard Stallman's Crusade for Free Software".

It's a good read and helps you understand a bit more about RMS. My wife had noted that he has many traits in common with people who have Aspergers or Autism and it's acknowledged in the book.

Over the years I have worked with a few software engineers & sysadmins who have some similar traits; they are often correct in what they say and can get quite emotional when they see rules/conventions being broken. People who don't know them do find them odd and stop listening, especially when doing it their way seems like the harder path - but they are usually correct and in the long term we pay in terms of technical debt, increased complexity, or just broken systems.

I see the same thing with RMS - ultimately he is correct, but his path is difficult and is not convenient and he sometimes doesn't adhere to social norms (and sometimes alienates potential friend's) so let's call him a wingnut :wink: