This is what I want sources on. In the other thread, there are claims that “”“milennials”"" are going to bring shitty code to the platform.
In case my editions are being missed.
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I get your point and i agree with most of it. Just that bit irked me, I actually just wanted to see links to the claim.
This is something I don’t understand. You make a rule that says “no ad hominem attacks” and suddenly bad code has to be accepted? There’s a logical leap in there that I, nor anyone sane, would follow. A lot of reddit discussions are around the same - that somehow this CoC means that you have to accept a commit if the author becomes offended by your rejection. I do not understand how these people are deriving this as a result of the CoC.
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Me neither. It is very strange.
I’ve been in similar debates here and there. One was about language, that there is a Right way and a Wrong way. Problem is that a living language evolves over time. This wasn’t accepted, like some kind of fundamentalism. If one thing is changed, then the world is over? Indeed not sane. We get a new word in our language and are richer for it, but somehow that means the end of the world. I truly don’t get it.
This thread is about Torvald’s departure, not the CoC itself.
The discussion about the CoC is taking place here:
If Torvalds was a corporate CEO or CTO, rather than the leader of a weird sort of community, he might have gotten away with the abuse if it was kept private. But, he would have pushed away good developers who happened to have less-than-perfect moments.
If the abuse was visible to the public, well… corporate boards don’t like their names and reputations sullied.
Linux is no longer a geeky developer enthusiam. It’s a mainstream software product with significant financial bets placed on its continued success. Like it or not, Torvalds is the single most public face of Linux – maybe Linux ought not to depend on a single public face – and his behavior shapes mainstream opinion of Linux much more than its technical merits.
Torvalds is not a kid. He’s a middle-aged adult. I hope he gains some insight and returns as a more effective shepherd of his creation.
(I see a lot of really stupid rhetoric online leveraging this incident in some kind of ritual toxic male woman-hating fest. These people also need to take some time off.)
Ok heres the argument to end this shit right now.
The reason this is stupid is its demanding diversity where it doesn’t need to be. It doesn’t matter if you’re white, black, indian, asian, whatever. Idiot code is idiot code. Whats important is diversity of thought. As often as this CoC document has been applied, its aparent that communication basically died and no real benefits came of it, mostly negatives. At that, past uses of the CoC document have been to eject people holding important seats in projects.
Its a bad document. End of discussion. If they don’t change it the kernel dev team will turn into “but my feelings” rather than actually getting work done.
If you want that for the kernel you should probably be aborted from the planet via oversized catapult and a nuclear powered missle.
/s but srsly its a bad doc get over it
Why not accept Linus’ viewpoint as valid, as the project founder, and use it as a a filter for people who need to learn how to handle real world criticism?
Don’t like it? Fork off and maintain your own tree. With SJWs. And cookies. And free hugs or whatever.
Linus is not their employer. He’s a guy on the internet who started a coding project for his own personal use, and if others find it useful, dandy.
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I’d hardly use Facebook, Google or Microsoft up as shining examples of proper conduct.
I think a more powerful force influenced his mind…his daughter.
That’s the latest theory anyways. I’m pretty sure you don’t stop being an outspoken abrasive asshole after how many years? pretty sure that kept the ship steering straight so to speak as well.
Either way it doesn’t mean there needs to be some strict code of conduct for contributors and maintainers.
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His daughter is the neo-feminist type, signed/endorsed an…essay? On how meritocracy is bad for marginalized people or something, by the author of the Contributor Covenant/CoC Linux now uses.
My main issues are that the author wants it to be a political document, and it’s very authoritarian, since it forces you to both abide by it and enforce it with no recourse otherwise if you say wanted to just use the old perfect Code of Conflict instead.
The core ideals behind are to restrict interaction/speech of people the author views as bad, which shouldn’t be a thing outside of harassment and all of that. As noted below
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Idunno, attempt to call someone out as a Satanist 
Ya I dunno what that is about…Satanism never killed thousands in crusades, he’s a good boy.
She’s also not a Satanist by any of the screenshots he took. It’s just a poor ad hominem.
Go listen to the latest episode of ask noah. You’ll learn a lot from dt I think.
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This conversation has been getting more and more circular. Either come to an agreement or agree to disagree.
This is a general warning, not at anyone in particular.
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It was perfect, One line was all it needed “be excellent to each other”, like e=mc^2 how did that type of CoC push devs out?
I don’t think we should be generally policing behavior or interaction between those communities. Because who gets to decide what is acceptable and what isn’t? Outside of obvious things like harassment, ect. I surely wouldn’t want it to be the Covenant author who doesn’t seem to believe in free speech.
It’s authoritarian, because it requires enforcement onto people, and onto/by leads. Failure to enforce it results in punishment. The previous code of conflict doesn’t have those issues. I surely lean more towards limited oversight and more towards anarchy for these kinds of things, it’s like policing tweets, which is already crazy.
The daughter thing is just some crazy conspiracy theory for now…
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I consider that patently wrong for two reasons:
- Beyond knowing that “Some guy called Linus Torvalds created Linux” the “mainstream” wouldn’t have the foggiest idea who Linus is or care how he behaves. Mainstream Linux users don’t mess with the kernel, don’t subscribe to the LKML, and don’t watch any of the presentations/interviews that Linus gives. Kernel development is a different world that the mainstream simply doesn’t care about.
- The people that have “significant financial bets” placed on Linux’s continued success are grown-up, serious people that only care about its technical merits. Interpersonal drama on the LKML is of no interest to them whatsoever.
People don’t install and use Linux because Linus panders to snowflakes and their fragile egos, they install and use Linux because of some combination of it being a) free, b) open source, and c) performant.
“Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.” — Albert Einstein
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I will save some of this for this week’s news but… two things. One, this
http://code-of-merit.org
Read that first. Then let’s talk about this another way. What if Linus was a flat earther?
And what if Linus is even more prolific and perhaps the world’s best programmer? But he was not militant or argumentative about what he believes re flat Earth, and otherwise his goals are aligned on brining the best durn open source os to life, ever? In fact he would never mention such things in any official communication or mailing list traffic.
What does it say about ourselves when the genuine good work of others is amplified or diminished by matters othagonal to the work itself?
I’m given to understand Newton was a fairly nasty person… should Leibnitz be retroactively credited for calculus instead because of that?
What if instead of Linus it was Alex Jones who, again, would leave his other beliefs out of it but was otherwise genuinely very pleasant to work with and highly competent? And had some amazing and popular project that was a really unassailable work of technological prowess and art.
I’m not sure science, or the state of the art… knowledge… cares where it came from.
If that triggers you for gods sake don’t look into the history of the us nuclear program… Lol
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