Let's talk open source solutions. Privacy, trust, data, computation, AI, platform, distribution, decentralization, rights etc

I’m gonna put here what i think about future of web. I’m not a native english speaker so pass beyond silly mistakes.

  • I believe computation is the ultimate resource. This has to be democratised in a sense that it’s our right to have access to average compute performance of the world at any moment. Imagine 1000 qubit quantum computer but only owned by these corporations and we have to pay to have access. people will not find anything wrong in it however computation is holi grail of all things future, such power controlled by few corporations will be extremely unethical.

  • World is functional and coherent because we all have similar intelligence, our communication protocol is cognitively same for all. Computation is our 21st century cognition. We have been offloading cognition on external resources. the problem is that our external cognition is stored and processed on someone else’s infrastructure which they basically own and sell. How do you protect your individuality and identity when major part of your cognition is owned by corporations.

  • We all need super compute performance sometimes, in a compute network of computeBlocks, whether at homes of compute farms. we would be able to leverage compute performance for things that only pocket heavy corporates can do. For rendering, folding, training ML models and AIs. A public computation pool where each person has their own computeBlock given to the pool as resource. User’s personal data never have to leave user’s own ComputeBlock and even for computation with non-zero verification.

Once we have this opens ource infrastructure then,
let consumers monetise their own data on a democratised computeBlock super network. Users will license their algorithms and data. More people will start to invest in a better computational resources on this public distributed compute platform.

However, It’ll destroy big corporations business models completely.

ComputeBlocks is just a CPU with good hardware, connected in super compute network. Each person owns just one and linked with their own personal identity.

For example, Wendell can own just 1 compute-block, if he wants more than 1 then he shall install it on other individual identity on shared profit basis.

With user operated data analytic & simulation tools, people can build lot of things. It’ll probably become source of income like UBI. And people will not only understand the the value of their data but also engage in developing real optimisation solutions, algorithms that will solve world of problems.

It is also a potential solution for threats that comes with AI. your compute is like your vote. All compute of the world is distributed averagely attributed to people then any AI can not grow without permission carried out by consensus. A true democratised way to secure future…

I can give many examples and scenarios if this the best fitting solution or not. But i guess most people can figure out themselves but if required then I can further ideate, simulate and try to calculate probabilities and have open discussion…


Here’s some quick points.

  • Compute Infrastructure owned by users rather than few big corporations.
  • Everyone in network practically gets access to supercomputer power.
  • Opportunity for people to earn income from it, at least disposable income.
  • Managed by your own AI setup on your block, it’ll learn from you and secure you, your block and assets.
  • Each computeblock is linked with owner’s identity, only 1 block per person is allowed.
  • You can install more Computeblock using identity of any unprivileged and sharing 50% of whatever of earning from that block.
  • Compute network can use ipfs, there’ll be geographical clusters where certain assets will generate more income compare to others depending on sector specialization…
  • Entire network functions with use of machine learning to create stronger pathways/networks depending on access memory effect like neural web.
  • It could be compute powerhouse for all your devices phone, AR/VR, tablets etc…
  • It could be used as secure Home Automation, ComputeBlock wireless network for users on platform

… more coming …

everyone can have their own workspace… like Slack…
for example,

host all your private and public data on your own computeBlock under your own workspace…
website, tweets, messages and your own forums and your own youtube…

What is ComputeBlock? is a specialized computer used in public Super Compute Network, It is highly secured platform on a highly secure operating system probably based on some linux distro, to support blocks assets/apps that are trusted/certified.

What’s asset store? is like appstore but for business case assets such as Personal AI, Video Network, Ad network, Distributed Rendering Nodes, Cloud Storage, super-compute network and all sorts of assets. People can deploy various assets as services on their block that will make money from them.

Hardware/Interfaces in Compute Block: Imagine Apple Pro trash-can or large amazon echo, and is modular so additional peripherals could be added like, speaker, mic, hologram projector etc. ComputeBlock runs on secure BlockOS, block is secure with multiple layer of security. It comes with 3 price point and performance ratio. it could also be equipped with high end GPUs, wireless router, speaker and mic and future version may include holographic display feature.

Core asset is SUC Network which is the basic income generator from computing and various other assets can be installed from Asset Store including rendering, verifier, mining, model training, protein folding etc. Each block is designated to 1 person only. Everyone can not afford compute block but people who want to install multiple blocks can use other’s identity to setup block and share 50% UBI with them generated on that block.

I’m just rolling with this fantasy. the point is to simulate scenarios and figure our viable solutions for hard problems for our own understanding. please contribute with your solutions and thoughts…

It’s so lonely here. Can i delete this thread?

Well, was an interesting idea, and potential way to keep the masses making some kind of income once our jobs have been automated.
One problem is we are not entitled to others property, and all the heavy compute power is (and will continue) be owned by mega corps, so we can only hope regulators give us some scraps from the big data machines

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Another fun turnaround, at the moment lots of GPUs are being used by a few people for mass number crunching of bitcoin.
What if in the future, a big block chain requires masses of humans to crunch through problems for a few computers to do the same thing?

True as of now…
But of course you can incentivise people for producing hardware and maintaining infrastructure.

here’s the thing… It’s business opportunity for producers… hardware producers will not deny new business. if AMD, Intel, nVidia and all these guys are not producing then there will be hundreds of Chinese manufacturers will enter into the market…

And such systems can not be deployed overnight by any company. it will immerge and converge out of necessity and public demand…

With a shared VR world, Kinda like the Matrix, or the Oasis or something, where one logs in, goes to the virtual office for a days work at crunching problems for our robotic overlords…

I think the world of tech will move too fast for regulators to step in, an a few companies may start a system making governments mostly irrelevant

there’s no denying we’ll have some serious VR infusion. I don’t think that’s a problem… Life rightnow is pretty much one dimensional, single threaded and to be honest pathetic… We are gonna get into super advance technology no matter what… The question is, can we push it towards much safer implementation?

I find people will never be able to compete or even be upto date with progress of technology…
That’s why we need a auto-upgrader in the interest of user. We need a system which will remove the need of technicalities and cognitively offload super complex stuff without compromising integrity and trust.

That’s why we need some sorta simulation platform… Like Idea tester. that will produce a degree certainty in the result and along with people own vote, which will narrow down to good options and deployment of any technology or process.

Imagine if we could just simulate certain business model or regulation in a test environment… And people can just participate in simulation on a test platform using their own AI instance on their computeBlocks. It’s a study like any other… also a way to incentivise participants…

Computation is not their property, tools? Yes…
What we need an open source alternative macro-capitalistic infrastructure and system builder which is crowdfunded and has some sort of council that gets selected by votes every few years in a true democratic fashion.

This council doesn’t function like government body or corporations for profits,
instead follows a philosophy of optimization, sustainability, public interest and well being of people including UBI income from compute network.

Imagine if we didn’t have open source then we would be out of options and corporations would to do anything for profit that often goes against public interest… I see loss of opportunity for not having an alternative force in place. We know that neither democracy nor capitalism is functioning anywhere near as it should? It’s been seen throughout history that having competitive alternatives benefits users from all sides.

Don’t. You have picked up one of my favorite topics, and you are taking it in an interesting direction. Too busy working to engage, though. Take it easy.

They are definitely in a different sync than 40 years ago. I’d say we will be improved by technology we own/control, or enslaved by technology we don’t. Whether the society gets improved by us getting improved is uncertain at best. Whom does the technology serve and extend, whose “agent” it is, and at what meta-level.

I mean, it may serve me well, but in serving me, does it change the game into something it shouldn’t be? The game is changing, though. Becoming something else. And so are perceptions of self, one way or another. I recall @GFX_Garage having an interesting idea (actually several) about future shape of things, which I came to think of when reading your posts.

Yours is certainly an interesting topic to develop a bit, it is just bad timing for myself. Hopefully other guys will bite :wink: .

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Please don’t.

This thread is a great idea. It’s something that I’ve been considering myself; only I probably don’t have the detailed understanding that you do.

This seems surprisingly feasible. For instance, we’re already heading that way to a smaller degree. Colleges are well known for carrying GNU/Linux distro repos. I’ve recently been suggesting that universities would be good infrastructure for a commons network of sorts. They are also providing MOOCs for free.

Also, the AI researcher Ben Goertzel has created an AI economics network called Singularity Net. It’s an ICO based on Ethereum and uses the Ether coin. It’s essentially a marketplace for AI research, development and distribution.


This type of model could be a possible transition model for post money economics. This helps projects to focus on utility and function as opposed to funding. It’s not perfect; but it’s a large step forward. ICOs were essentially designed with management in mind; even though they take advantage of derivatives.

The Economic Space Agency is a small group of researchers that have been breaking ground on this kind of thing. They work out of a garage in SoCal. :slight_smile: They helped Ben Geortzel with Singularity Net. Here’s an interesting lecture / Q&A.

I’ve been working on a project to “science the $#!7 out of” Socioeconomics. I’m just over three years in and in Alpha. I’m looking for a home for the project; but there really doesn’t seem to be one in existence. There is Citizen Science; but it’s university research projects that citizens can get involved in. It’s not so much a network for amateur science projects.

Anyway, here is a free PDF of my first Alpha release.

@Blunderbuss thanks for mentioning me in and directing my attention to this thread. Also, I’ve taken some of your crits to heart and this is reflected in the new Alpha release. For instance, I’ve spelled out that this is to be coordinated with governance rather than replacing it. I’ve also given a rough model of how. It’s always good to have intelligent people to bounce this off of. Thanks for the interest.


No I won’t. thanks for taking interest…

Most won’t do anything because world is kinda full of ignorant people.
But I’m so much tired… so I’ll add few points what I think…

Point 1: It seems lot more complicated than it might actually be:
I’m a developer, I plan, design and code enterprise systems which is basically abstraction of communication flow in an organization. For me it’s just another project like banking or healthcare. It sounds complicated or hard to imagine because of its sheer scale and also we don’t design them frequently.

Point 2: Current system is not that bad…
I get it, the system is not fair for all. but don’t behave like a rogue or cult. You don’t make it propaganda against government and corporate establishments whatever. Be smart enough to understand workings of logics and reason with it. No perfect system is possible. Corruption and power hustle are byproducts of insecurity and uncertainty. People have hoarding attitude to be more secure and certain which is quite natural behaviour. However that might change if we’ve system that provided people with basic security like UBI and free healthcare. who knows?

Part 3: Can we really break the loop?
if you try to observe at a broader scale. it seems pretty clear that we are pretty much always in loop. And we always repeat same mistakes again and again. I think it has something to do with how we process memory over time or just say side effect of being a human. We most certainly can not go ahead without external help. which leads to my next point…

Part 4: We need a Simulation/Optimization platform:
One of the thing people express is that we’ll not be able to compete with progress, fear of losing out to machines and all. I can understand this fear. This is probably due to our future blindness. We do not have mental capacity to calculate probabilities, especially when technology grows at this pace, we’re practically future blind. The right move is to build tools to help us calculate possibilities and optimization. Imagine sort of platform where we could deploy and test ideations and optimizations before actually implementing to the real world. In conjunction with simulation result and human intuition.

Part 5: Intelligence and fame is overrated.
Most smart and famous people can be incredibly ignorant and short sighted. Intelligence is just a tool, if they can’t use it to serve beyond themselves then they are really not worth anything to you. It’s not all about ‘who’ but ‘what’. World is so obsessed with ‘who’. Who created, who invented blah blah such a crap load of distraction. If we work in the context of ‘what’ then ‘who’ seems such a small thing. What solutions we need to build and execute matter lot more than who does it. My point is, be a skeptic, don’t just follow people blindly like a cult. Try to understand their motivation and you can’t really rely on media anymore. Find good source of information like level1News and tell more people about it.

Part 6: We need to close the gap.
Being in tech industry for over 12 years, I learnt that there’s significant gap between tech and non tech world and the gap is getting wider as we progress. We’ve access to such phenomenal tools and open-source collaboration which sounds dreamy world to a non techie person. Non tech crowd are involved with tech mostly through consumerism.

If we cut the crap, the only fundamental different between techie and non techie is technicals. In a hyper abstracted scenario where you don’t require to have technical expertise, will clear all the differences. Non-techie crowed is as capable of making optimization solutions, algorithms and inventions as experts. We need a standards and system which will automatically upgrade people technologically, they don’t need to have knowledge and expertise to be upto date… If good old consumerism can do with iPhone then it’s definitely possible if return is involved. and the best way is to integrate with public interest systems like simulation platform, owned computeBlocks, public compute networks, public platform for UBi etc.

— few more points later —

That’s a good point to start with. It’s extremely complex. Though there are a wide variety of theoretical understandings to apply toward achieving prediction value, there is still a lot of natural chaos to contend with. That’s what I’m working on now; (bring on the headaches) and it’s difficult to even approach. Even that being the case, having a theoretical model that only deals with the normative influence could create a great deal of positive change.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I think simulation is a good idea; but I don’t know how to implement it. Of course the expected chaos is a huge hurdle; but at the same time not an argument against simulation. It could still produce a large positive effect.

I’ve been suggesting that the economic system be treated as an experiment; where the individuals work with the institutions in a feedback loop. The institutions provide theory for modeling projects; and the projects test the theories. The model is intended to be self organizing. It would be nice to have some form of insight into what could be expected before implementing the theory in the wild though.

It seems pretty evident that people are generally intelligent; but lack information in a lot of cases. The fact that so many exist in so many different situations is in itself a hurdle. It produces a wide variety of interest and aptitude. This is probably the reasoning behind division of labor and similar ideals.

Closing the gap is a difficult problem too. The plug -n- play model is really what’s creating the gap in the first place. Producers don’t want consumers having understanding of their IPs. Also design is hell bent on being idiot proof. This prevents the consequences that people have evolved to learn from. This “never blame the user” dogma not only doesn’t work, but it’s also making things worse.

The open models are much better because they allow people to tinker and break things. There are also forums where people can share their knowledge with others and build communities that prepare for the coming technological society.

Automation is of course an issue to be concerned with; but it will also free up time for people with 100+ IQs to tinker and break stuff. This is one of the main reasons that I’m in favor of UBI.

I think the gap can be closed; and the conditions that could do it seem to be coming. I do however agree that consumerism and social media have been a dangerous distraction.

I’m glad that you have posted this thread; and I’m looking forward to what it brings.

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Yes, complexity is a perspective from where you stand. Landing on moon was complex, even impossible from perspective of many critics… it had full support of government though…

Let’s go step by step.

What do I think? and want?
I want the same thing as every person wants including Mark Zukerburg and CEO of Exxon or anyone on this planet for that matter…

  • We all want to survive and thrive (check)
  • We all want sense of security (check)
  • We all want certain level of trust from transacting party (check)

It’s not my job blame any particular company or CEO, they’re under pressure all the time from investors, advertisers, users and competitors. Make no mistake, doing business is like fighting a war. it’s painful and scarring that thousands of failed start-ups have gone through each month. Any business that does not exploit potential opportunities (within legal framework) will have disadvantage over its competitors because everyone else is doing it. The issue is legal system itself is clueless of what should be in legal framework… at least for tech. Then you think of AI regulations. How do you expect legal systems, regulators to comprehend impact of these technologies when the CEO of these companies can’t.

What can we do then?
Simulation is not just a wishful idea… But a crucial tools that we require for our security and survival as stated above. I don’t want to talk about AI and all but there’s no denying that it’s incredibly powerful tech. A true legend Stephen Hawking, who could calculate the hardest problem of physics just inside his mind… he said something about AI you can read on google.

I’ve an analogy for you: Our future is like a boulder that is rolling downhill in the mountains. We don’t exactly know where it’ll land but we can calculate probabilities. and all these corporations are running in front of the boulder with their tools, trying to change path bit by bit to bend its trajectory towards their interests. Till now it worked fine however debatable.

Simulation is easy and difficult.
It depends on what are you simulating.
General user could process an outcome within certain environment with their provided data & parameters. Researchers & scientists could use data models, learning models, physics, chemistry sims etc. businesses could simulate business models, resource optimization etc. lawmakers could simulate case outcome on historic data with real time modification.

For development, what I’m thinking is kinda like intelligent simulation platform. Using AI + trained models and lot of pre-computed & baked scenarios, historical perfs to function with minimal overhead. with 10-12 million computeBlocks worth of computation could achieve incredible simulation capability. Once QC speedup is achieved, many super large simulation could run in realtime.

Also I think, there should be a grading system and standards for all content framework, depending on its type if social, educational, news etc. These system should be deployed on a simulation platform for months during which it will be monitored, verified and profiled. Before anyone shout against, profiling is required for intelligent systems.

Here’s another case. There are at least twice the number of developers when I started a decade back. Developing is getting easier and it’s not far when general people can develop apps, systems, algorithms etc, using drag & drop or even by chatbot/devbot. I can imagine a platforms within 2-3 years that will allow people to develop all sorts of things for AI, AR/VR, games, apps, algorithms etc. If you think it’s policing, it’s not. it’s compliance for security and opportunity for developers to present their creations on a platform with ready user base.

Developers learn and perfect on the platform. Like food, anything you consume is food for your mind and it should be profiled and graded and pass compliance so it easier for user to know exactly what is it. Apart from real user base, simulation platform will also have hundreds of thousands AI participants for use cases modelled by users real participants on platform. The cost and risks are hugely minimised from investors point of view as well.

Anyone reading it, please don’t take it as fear-mongering or anything. I’m very private guy and I have no intention to be involved in any controversy. It’s an effort to derive a solution for our understanding, as suggested in topic name.

My point was to provide option for people by removing the technical barriers so they can get involve. Like a hyper abstraction layer on the top of technical layer. Developers will work on technical layer… kinda like Alexa… For creating solution/algorithms for city traffic, logistics, optimizing school subject or healthcare tools to compare risk factors of certain diet etc. For developing apps just talking to a best and fastest app developer AI. Eg. Make an App. for my matchmaking business, has customers and apart from basic profile add height, ethnicity… used by public and employees, should have customer logging blah blah…

I don’t see it as app development only… I think most people will create something or other. music, movies, games, experiences and all sorts of content we don’t even know as of yet… And about IP, what happened to music with itunes. IP should be free to use on simulation platform since devs will not be making money until passes sim. bare in mind, these are assets/apps which is on ubi platform only.

To further elaborate on computation, democratized computation would mean, now anyone can build computationally heavy content. It’s not just a fantasy anymore. in fact you could actually now build a systems like AI MovieMaker, early stage nonetheless. you could add or remove shadows, objects etc in the scenes.

Imagine using CLI interface to build scenes.

  • Build a city with sample data from Tokyo, NY and Paris.
  • Populate with cars 20% Teslas, 50% BMWs and 30% Hondas.
  • Peoples average height 3 feet…
  • Resize houses, cars and transport relative to population size.
  • Load camera movement xyz
  • Render scene

As you can easily see how and what exactly is going on underneath.
Similarly it can be applied on everything, this would infact open the pandora’s box.

Data + Training + AI + AR/VR - Code. It’s going to be incredible opportunity for people to do things that are very hard and specialized today. Just like access to camera phones made instagram possible, Photography used to be very specialized… it still is for certain type of photography. If you stand in this thought and see then today would look like very primitive style, very specialized and privatized closed like some gollum’s precious.

My point is, access to computation is as important as connectivity or data. implementation requires open computation on open platform which needs open infrastructure. It will not only empowers people but also give them something to do whatever they are passionate about and also earn UBI in the process. Also makes a better case for smooth transition when jobs gets low, avoid possibility of any civil war type situation.

I am drifting with my thoughts now but you can get the idea… Let’s discuss it further tomorrow… Goodnight.

I’m in favor of simulation because of human cognitive constraints. More rigorous thinking is always a good thing. I myself use argument mapping to sort the high level concepts of theory. It helps me to employ higher orders of logic towards the project. It is a test that the arguments correlate with each other.

The value that I see in simulation is similar. It helps as a pre-test of assumptions.

There is however no substitute for maximally empirical data. This is why the model is built around self-organization; in the context of real world testing.

The reason that this is important is because humans evolved to interact with their environment. If their immediate environment is dogmatic, the humans will be dogmatic. Humans need to see for themselves if something works or not. Otherwise they will believe what people tell them. Humans need to tinker and break things. It’s an evolutionary predisposition.

Also simulation doesn’t make consistently accurate predictions in weather during changes of season. The predictions in climate change are less accurate proportionally to the difference in complexity. Now add even more complex systems and billions of conscious entities to the mix.

Again, I’m very much in favor of simulation: but it’s going to be extremely difficult to reach a high level of accuracy.

25% useless
50% interesting
75% useful
90% not going to happen

Here’s why:


Simple rules can produce effects that have no human discernible patterns. We are pattern recognition machines. We build pattern recognition machines. Not even hindsight is 20/20.

In order to produce high levels of accuracy in simulations, we need to know what to enter into the code and prompt; and we just don’t… because we can’t even perceive it. There are things going on around us that we can’t perceive or even comprehend. Maybe an AGI can augment itself to do it; but humans can’t.

I’m still in favor of simulation; but real time distributed management is the key for legacy humans specifically.