Is Code .org Good, Bad , Evil or Ugly?

Communities Blog
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So for the past year Khan Academy many other celebrites and huge public figures have been promoting Code.org as a way for young people to code. Now, is it just me who feels like certain people (the masses who only use their computer for Facebook...shoot me :( . ) But besides that , I think if this becomes popular the culture of computers and technology will become diluted ! If you agree great , and if not why? Explain/Rant have fun.

 

P.S: I looked at some of their "games" . Some are a complete joke others I can see the use but I would just prefer to take up a book...

 

The Link of Evil: http://code.org/

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I can defiantly see a muddying of the waters type situation that will happen with people like Kelso who now think they can code and produce programs.

 

Coding is one thing I always wanted to try but I have no idea where to start. I would like to create usb drivers.   

3

Inspirational music, tick.

Attractive girls, tick.

Macs and Ipads, tick.

"It's so easy!", and more over-simplification, tick.

 

Seems like they've been recruited to bring more people into computer employment.

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I would have to agree. Don't get me wrong its a good start for learning some basics, but what you are doing is not "coding". It's just a simplified introduction. But yet they are promoting this as "coding". I see what they're trying to do, they're trying to show that anyone can learn to code (which is true) but they are giving you this little toy, and calling it coding.

5

I hate all of these easy code rubbish, like scratch and lightbot. Get stuck in, learn c++ or java(Maybe python if you are a bit less intelligent)

6

I hope your a programmer who has already landed a job, most would be employers would stick their foot up your butt so fast for sounding that close-minded. I would like to point out that a person's choice of language has nothing to do with how smart they are, it is how they implement it and how intimately they know the language in question that factors into their use as a programmer. And believe it or not, I don't program in Python, I program in Java, C#, C++, (an 'etc.' would sound good right now), but anyway, I'm just learning at the moment, my point being that you should mind the tone at which you state something in writing.

7

I would choose your words carefully.  We have very expensive software that does complex fatigue analysis and FEA analysis that uses python to call all the functions in order to make customized tools and inputs.  Not all code languages are around to make the next best thing.  Python may be easier to learn but that means its easy for me to be better and more efficient at my job.  I work for one of the three largest producers of farm equipment which means the food you eat touched the machines I work on every day.  If I can leverage python to do my job faster and with better results I say that is pretty damn intelligent.

8

I think everyone should have to write some code as part of their basic education, just as everyone at some point will probably have the write a story, find China on a map, perform an experiment and do some calculus. The point here is not to give people enough skills to become a programer, writer, geographer, scientist or mathematician, but to give them some insight into how the world around them works, and to hopefully understand where the people in those professions are coming from when they encounter them. 

I think that most people can grasp the idea that building a model of the Empire State Building out of Lego (which is the programming equivalent to what is going on here) does not make you an architect. 

9

To the public eye, I guess "coding" is basic, fun shit, and "programming" is still the evil, scary shit.

Yeah, I'd say it's less than a year before mainstream media picks this up and runs with. Then we're all doomed. Imagine Wolf Blitzer "coding" live with an iPad on CNN. Ugh.

I took one of these coding courses (not Code.org) and that shit was still confusing. I need to give it another shot though.

10

I'm slightly torn over this. Although I strongly campaign that programming should be a part of basic schooling curriculum, it should be actual programming, not this fairy-tail image code.org is trying to portray.

Programming can be frustratingly annoying and hard to grasp sometimes, even for programmers. For lack of a better explanation:

EVERYONE is horrible at programming. Some are just marginally less horrible. The only thing that stops people recognising this is hubris and pride.

There are countless variations and environments one could program in, but they all require the same basic computing knowledge above all else. That is, how the software you're writing interfaces with the hardware, logic and arithmetic, recursion/iteration, how the interpreter/compiler translates whatever language into machine code, the difference between the stack and heap, general memory management, the list goes on.

This is basic programming 101 and applies to all computer science/computing students. What code.org is doing is good, but I also think it's giving a very shallow representation of what programming actually is. Heck, even with these established basics most students (at good institutions, mind you) are still not taught very well at a university level. We currently have a generation of what we call "cheese programmers" that are slowly seeping through. Trust me, I've known and interviewed many of them

Joel Sposky wrote an excellent article on the state of current CS students and how times have changed since the advent of high level languages and a lack of the root basics. Jeff Attwood also wrote about the scary (and present) reality of programmers who can't program. Some people simply do not have the ability to write code, there's even research to back up this notion.

So looking at this I see three possible outcomes. The first being where children and people who once hadn't a clue what coding was become inspired and passionate about their latest discovery and natural aptitude, they go on to become great programmers. In the second outcome people participate in what code.org have to offer, but fall short of the inner nuts and bolts which computer science actually represents, and are frightened away when they later chase programming academically/professionally. The last and the worst outcome, is we have people who continue past the second group but ultimately lose heart, and turn into the very cheese that is beginning to saturate the engineering industry. That third outcome is surprisingly more common than you think.

I probably wrote a lot more than I needed to here, but I've had many internal wranglings over this topic with my colleagues at work. Some see the potential it brings, and others see it as throwing crude oil onto the fire. No one can say for sure, but my gut tells me that code.org is an unresolved external symbol just waiting to happen.

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My fear is that "coding" will become trendy and as a result will be promoted the reprobates of society e.g Miley Cyrus, Kanye West and the list goes on!

 

12

+1 lol

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I completly agree with you that the artifical concept of coding being code.org will not help anyone to really code. If they really wanted to express the need for people to learn coding they develop the proper environment. I found it to be surprising who exactly was in the video . Many of them are just hyprocrites, how can we have an "innovative" world when we have patents trolls from large respected companies like Apple. The first thing they should do is to fix the patent system for technology and software. Second, allow the truth about coding to be said. If kids below 12 and teenagers can get behind a computer and develop software without the help of code.org. Then you do not need all of this fluff. Programming is easy to those who have the interest. Not those who seek gain with no creativity (which is a huge issue in the academic world , especially in universities with undergrads).

14

No comment. Just praise for explaining your point. By the way I love the articles you linked.

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My problem with this is that it'll stop being a skill only a handful of people can do and will start being a skill you don't have to learn and don't have to spend years to make a good program. It's the same thing that happened with music. Tape used to be the format music was recorded on and it was really hard to be a production engineer in the music field. Then Pro Tools comes along and you have people making awful, awful music on their laptops. The sad thing is that the awful, awful music is beating the stuff that actually isn't awful because there's so much of it.

These people are saying "Oh, it's so easy!" No, it's not. It's hard as hell. When you code, you can misplace a single thing and it can literally break the program. Miss a semi-colon? Ha, good luck scouring your 6000 lines of code for it. Your problem is highlighted but you don't know what to do? You're on your own, bud. Coding and programming is really, REALLY hard, no matter what anyone tells you. There's a reason people take 4 year long courses for it. It's a skill you learn and with the ever changing landscape of technology, you will always have to adapt.

 

/rant

16

"Some people do not have the ability to write code..."

Oh, man, how true is this? I know from personal experience that not everyone can code, despite professional help. I wanted to be a game programmer. Not after Grade 11 Computer Science I didn't. There's a reason I prefer dealing with hardware; I don't have to do as much. 

17

The idea that some people can do things that others can't applies to every type of skill. Some people are naturally attuned ay doing some things better than others, that's all there is to it. Chances are if you find difficulty with mathematics, programming won't be very enjoyable for you either - only because the two are closely related.

For example, Ive been programming since my early teenage years. That doesn't mean I'm gifted or smarter than everyone else or even other programmers who started coding later on in their lives. On the other hand I seem completely inept at every form of art that exists on this planet. I couldn't draw myself out of a paper bag. Although I have had to do art to some level during my school and university years out of absolute necessity. I was only able to do this because throughout my life and until that point I was always exposed and taught at an elementary level of understanding about this artsy thing I had to do, and it happened to come in handy. Just like how art, biology, chemistry (and many other divisions of science) or any other seperate subject is taught at a certain level in schools, then there wouldn't be a need for all this "X lines of code" and social media nonsense.

If code.org exposes coding to the general masses, it'll benefit everyone. I'm a firm believer of always knowing at least the basics of different professions or skills, especially if they can benefit you in everyday work and life. And by expose, I mean actually show more than just how to write a handful lines of code, or a small app, that's not the basics. It needs to cover the very absolute foundation of what computer science is imo.

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The majority of music created using electronics isn't very unique and they mostly sound the same. Apply this to "coding" made easy and you have a ton of software being created that pretty much does the same thing. Or even worse, is the quality of programs made at the independent "indie" level will decrease due to an increase in poor developers!

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We currently have a generation of what we call "cheese programmers" that are slowly seeping through.

<...>

Jeff Attwood also wrote about the scary (and present) reality of programmers who can't program.

Ah the Java generation. (salt, grain, you know the drill)

It's frustrating how many bad "developers" and horrible applications are out there... Webdevs seem to be highly represented among them too (does your website really have to be build on JavaScript alone? Geez).

I did a (basic) networking course and in the same room was a guy that used to be a Java programmer professionaly, was learning either PHP or dotNet there, and he got a call for a job interview. Programming Java. Okay, all is well, but on the ride home (he was living not far from where I live and I have no car) he was going on about how he was panicking because he -still- didn't know what inheritance was (and other more minor things that I can't remember atm). Now, I am not a programmer, by far, but I have read enough about programming and programming languages to know what inheritance was, and some (if not most) of the other stuff he was panicking about. And that guy gets to be a professional programmer? Please...

I do the tiny bit of scripting when I need it, and since then I have thaught myself some Java (made a basic IRC client with a simple GUI and then I got bored of it) and PHP (made a basic forum). Programming isn't for me, too much logic that isn't mine. I still don't quite get the hang of recursion (I know what it does, but I never see when it would be appropriate, but maybe I've just not written anything that would need it). I chose Java and PHP because they're easier than C++ (templates, structs, what?).

So no, I don't go applying for programmer jobs, even though if I did just a bit more Java I'd probably be exceeding that guys understanding and possibly potential... (though my workflow is heavily flawed, lots of trial and error without test cases and such)

If anyone is even slightly interested in programming there's plenty of ways to do it and I don't think people need more encouragement. If they're still doubting and can't find anyone to help them (post on forums, talking irl, actual help with code) then they're probably not all that interested. If they are, there's plenty of simple stuff to do. Scripting is great to get a start. Android apps don't seem all that hard to get into either.

The only thing I could see this do is make people that are incapable thinking they are capable, and stubbornly going with that. And increase the number of bad developers/programmers out there. This is simply not what we -the users- need nor want. If they still feel the need to program then they can go ahead by all means, but I really hope the incapable ones never ever release anything.