Intel vs AMD: The Core Wars (Some Random Thoughts from Taipei) | Level One Techs

This is kind of a vlog, and some random thoughts after having seen both the AMD and Intel press events at Computex 2018.

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at
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Socket 478? … Pentium 4? Am I missing something here?

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I had meant it as a diminuitive for am4 but I forgot the audience wasnt in on my thinking lol
plus I’ve come to respect am4 a lot more than I had when it first launched

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Not suggesting you make wholesale changes anywhere, but that Vlog was very well done, and the content was very good as well. thank you!


AM4 is the perfect desktop socket.
It does not take much space, is simple to operate and supports 2 to 8 cores.
At some point, AMD said it will be supported til 2020. That would be Zen, Zen+, Zen 2 and potentially Zen2+ (or whatever) for the same socket.

For the core wars: AMD won. AMD was pushed into a corner and had to make the jack of all trades design. And hell they delivered! When they can shrink it with another process, they could slap 64 cores on a single interposer.
From there it is a question if it really makes sense to have memory interfaces, cache and cores on the same die. Just because historically, multi-die CPUs have been bodges doesn´t mean there isn´t serious potential from splitting it up.


I loved the style of this video. You should do more of them :smiley:


I had no idea there was even any lack of respect in the first place. Maybe it is my own awe and wanting for the platform and general lack of any want to do with Intel, but the original launch is recalled in my mind as highly praised and a much lauded effort that had not been seen for a long time.

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Well true but dual channel memory was up there with 4 core cpus. And only 20 pcie lanes – only 4 more pcie lanes than Intel? I would have wanted triple channel on x370 and maybe dual channel on b350. And x8 + x16 for the ideal flexible desktop platform.

It is kinda true too that lots of I/o plus lots of memory access bottlenecks a bit. I think this is why ryzen on general suffers a slightly higher platform latency than Intel. So I’m not sure my instincts were too far off.

It’s also about the longevity of am4


Always appreciate the insight

They already have the infinity fabric, so the communication infrastructure is there.
They can basically split all controllers away from the dies, but then again, the die is just a quad core. Unless they RYZE the core count, but still, 6 cores are 2009 technology. Shouldn’t be an issue.

Wow, hold there, buddy. It’s true, that would be nice for…? Why do the average Joe needs that again? I mean if you really need that performance there is the TR4 platform. Yeah, it’s expensive, but there are all the things you want from it.
AM4 is Average Joe platform for people to browse the Web and play some games. Most people don’t need anything more than A320 to be honest. Yes, those would be nice, but people that need it really aren’t enough to justify the effort yet.
I mean AM4 still gives you more than Intel do…


Keep in mind tr4 wasn’t a thing when I was initially thinking that. Plus we are at saturation today with modern nvme and gfx cards like Titan v + I/o. So 2700x based systems can fully saturate all available pcie and ram bandwidth

Oh Jesus Christ…

Monitoring this thread

Ok, back on-topic


Lol I’m just thinking 5 year platform. With tr4 in the picture it changes everything . Imagine if not though?

Well, it needs to last for the next 2 years. And we are talking next gen GPU will most likely come next year anyways.
What I don’t accept for argument is high end NVMe and TitanV. High end NVMe is more expensive than the motherboard itself, and then TitanV? Of all things? Nobody runs TitanV…
Say 1080Ti is different story, but 1080Ti runs just fine on X8.
Again, this is the mainstream platform. You are arguing high end features. There is high end desktop for that. Intel even gave you an i5 or was it i3 to kick-start their HEDT platform…
I get your point, but I completely disagree with it.

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My point was that tr was not a thing when am4 launched. So for high end peripherals am4 doesn’t make sense.

With tr being a thing, though, am4 being what it is makes sense.


Can we expect AM5 to be similar to TR4 features wise? I mean they have to bump up the feature list, so may be then we will see a triple channel memory and maybe dual NVMe raid option and extra GPU lanes…?
But they can’t really overshoot TR4, cause then they will just kill it…

EPYC was though :slight_smile:

Can you imagine if AMD didn’t cut it down for threadripper, and actually launched EPYC as their HEDT? CPU wise, they could do that and be cost competitive. Motherboard wise… probably not (they’d be more expensive), but it would have been even more of a kick in the pants to intel.

In hindsight, given the success if Threadripper, and the 4 die threadripper coming, i reckon EPYC would have been an even better decision for AMD HEDT. But prior to threadripper, i can understand AMD not wanting to commit that much to the HEDT platform. There’s a lot of inertia there and they may have had doubts about people giving up intel.

However, I think that for the average user, AM4 (even intel mainstream) is fine. Yes, i hate the limited number of PCIe lanes, but it works…

Joe average isn’t running titan Vs, he is running maybe 8-16 GB of RAM and uses his computer for light photo/video editing, internet banking and social media. Joe Average is using a Pentium or i3… maybe an i5 at a stretch.

Joe average might have one PCIe/M.2 SSD, but more likely it’s a SATA SSD (via the chipset) with some spinning rust.

Joe average is using a Geforce 1060. By the time Joe average needs more bandwidth for his video card, PCIe 4.0 will be here. And if Joe Average is an AMD faithful, he will be using an AMD video card with HBCC which will alleviate PCIe bus bandwidth concerns, too.

Pretty much anyone posting here is likely not Joe Average.

AS to being a 5 year platform… 5 years ago we had Haswell. I just upgraded from a Haswell box to AM4. IO wise there’s not a massive difference… if i had to i could have added a PCIe SSD controller to the haswell box to make up some of the difference.

I’m not even currently using any m.2 slots. I am however all SSD (SATA) and performance is already way better than most systems I see people using today.

AM4 has 5 years of life in it for Joe Average easily, IMHO. I’m certainly more of a power user than Joe Average.

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Very much doubt it.

I think you’ll find intel mainstream and AM5 (or whatever AMD’s new mainstream socket is) will be dual channel DDR5, PCIe 4.0 and whatever new USB standard is current at that time.

Those things will be the spec bump.

Doing triple or quad channel memory will just increase cost too much (average end user will see no difference with average end user workload - even today going beyond dual channel DDR4 is mostly only noticeable on synthetic or very niche workloads); the improvements will come from the new memory and IO standards, not running more lanes.

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I suspect for AM5 (or whatever is called) it will get a bump to triple channel memory, would make sense while designing a new socket to make room for the additional traces and pinouts necessary.

I think this Computex will go down as a huge fuckup for Intel. First you had woopee, new processor! Its an anniversary 5GHZ chip!!! Oh… its just a bit more binned 8700k and apparently still have to deal with TIM. Next day… we got a 28 core/56 thread behemoth that will do 5GHZ!!! We will write our presentation to hopefully cover up the fact and no one will notice or ask what type of cooling and binning process it went through! Woops… someones did ask. Ummm, yeah, so about that… it was the presenter who left out the fact it was an overclocking demonstration, we totally didn’t write it in such a way to make it look like a 5GHZ part was coming by 4th quarter, its fine. So they barely got 1 news cycle and in the case of the 28 core part it backfired significantly.

AMD… here is a 32 core part, it runs… we’ll take orders in August… oh yeah, cooling… here it is, wanna see it?

This already has started to bite Intel in its ass and will continue to do so for the rest of the year.