Improving the "creative"-section

Operating Systems & Open Source Linux
1

I would like to kick off a discussion on what has to be done to improve the experience with creative programs on GNU/Linux. Do you even share my opinion, that Audio-/Video- Editing Software (and maybe even image-manipulation/illustrating-software) is less satisfying on GNU/Linux than on Windows and/or OSX?

 

Audio:

One reason for me to dualboot is that I'm very used to programs like REAPER / Cubase and many important (windows-)VST's, and I doubt that (for example) ardour can replace that. But I admit that I should try that, before complaining. And I will!

So is there only a need for good software-alternatives or is there more to it?

Should we maybe start our investigation with the underlaying ALSA, PULSEAUDIO, JACK, WINEASIO or even with the plain hardware support? I don't really know if my hardware (Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, ESI Juli@) will work correctly with Linux. (And again, I will try!) But I would like to avoid messing with wine etc..

 

Video:

This is actually the reason why I'm starting this thread. I know Adobe Premiere Pro (with windows) and Final Cut (OSX). I haven't found a comparable program on Linux. Kdenlive seems to be ok for the basic stuff, but it has some bugs, that can be really annoying. Lightworks seems to be a good option, but sadly it does not run that well too. (crashes every time I try to import my videos in the timeline)

When it comes to effects / animations Blender surely can offer a lot (and as far as I can tell) it runs really smoothly.

 

Image:

From my experience GIMP and Inkscape can keep up with similar programs on other operating systems. But this is not everyones opinion, even Logan said once, that he would switch to Linux as soon as Adobe programs are available there.

 

I know that I will try to get Lightworks to work, so that I can compare it fairly. Besides that I hope that I can get rid of the kdenlive bugs, in order to be productive at all. The audio stuff will be a nice adventure, but I fear that there is no real substitution for amplitube and superior drummer...

With this thread I'm trying to collect an averaged opinion on this topic. Do you think that the available programs already offer enough features and stability for professional use? What is the worst problem / Where should we start to improve this situation?

2

The problem is that most companies/developers don't see the Linux platform as something to put thousands of man hours into. And that is for many reasons:

  • Linux isn't used by many people in the desktop world in the first place. Professionals want an OS that "just works" and won't have to bother with the little quirks of Linux. Multiple monitors was a huge problem some years ago, this and many other issues back in the day is why many never even tried it.
  • There is no clear standard for anything: ALSA/Pulse/Jack | xorg/wayland/mir | systemd/upstart | different kernel versions. It's a bit off-putting having to write parts of the program for multiple APIs to keep maximum portability. Though I am sure it's not that much of a deal if it were to be considered seriously.
  • The user base of Linux is often seen as a bunch of guys who refuse to pay for their software and any proprietary thing is discarded by them as something infiltrating their privacy. Devs often want their software to be closed source so that nobody will "steal" their code and redistribute it for free without any DRM or whatever. Also software engineers like to implement security by means of obscurity, which is less effort and time spent on making sure there are no major security flaws.
  • Hardware acceleration is still a big thing. The GPU drivers are complete garbage. AMD being the biggest problem for me, the open source driver and the catalyst driver just plain don't cut it, either you have working 2D acceleration or 3D acceleration. The grass is greener on the Nvidia side, though it's not good enough either.
  • Driver issues, while many things work almost out of the box in Linux already, lesser known / unpopular hardware won't work because only Windows drivers are available. I don't own any crazy audio gear but I can image that mixer boards and keyboards won't work. Either because there are no drivers, documentation or there just plain isn't any software that can be used with it.

Most software on Linux like GIMP for example is written by people with good faith, but they are by no means capable of competing with a team one hundred times larger working on Photoshop. Well they said they do not want to create an exact copy of PS, but you get what I mean. Though I'm not saying it's impossible to write good programs for Linux. I am sure most Adobe software could easily be ported from the OS X version by rewriting the parts that use platform-bound libraries.

3

So you actually think that it is actually not possible to develop professional use software for linux? (Or at least not comparable to other professional software)

I can get that if I think about the missing-standard mess. You could solve that by delivering your software only to a certain configuration. (And by that loosing one of the major benefits of linux) - The missing (hardware-)vendor support is another big issue.

But I still think that one should try to improve the situation, since it already worked (at least up to some extent) with other stuff like the Multihead support and maybe even GIMP. You actually don't have to offer the exactly the same level of quality. "Good enough" should be satisfying, I think. :) And it would be great to do this in an Open Source / Free Software manner.

4

@the193rd

You are comparing "Free" software with basic consumer grade products like Adobe for personal use or a hobby?

   ..."Do you think that the available programs already offer enough features and stability for professional use?"

This kinda depends on what you have available :) Proprietary - yes - FOSS - no.

What I mean is;

Production studios use customized Linux distros and hardware with in-house developed linux applications. This is so studios are compatible with every other commercial studio on the planet. This is the same reason commercial production and post production studios don't use Windows or Mac software.

Obviosuly a basic budget post production setup will cost around $25,000 ie; http://www.sgo.es/ - While a custom solution would cost millions.

5

Hm interesting. I didn't know, that customized Linux distors were used in this area. Obviously I'm not an expert. :)

Maybe I should rephrase the topic in that way, that I'm searching for good semi-professional (and preferable free (like Stallman likes to say: this does not mean gratis)) software. And if there isn't any, what has to be done to improve the situation. I think the important part is, that you are able to produce good quality content on ~2k$ setups (including hard- & software!), but somehow linux doesn't offer much in this area. (I know, this is a way to general statement, but I think you get the idea)

You said that there are proprietary programs that are good alternatives to windows-/mac counterparts? Could you name some?

Basically I am just on the search of how to put my time, effort and money into this issue to make it a better.

 

edit: I'm now away on vacation for a week. So be assiduous and leave many thoughts and ideas for me to pick up later! :)

6

There are a number of well written programs out there. A few that have been mentioned, there are others. Kritia is a very good painting/image editing application, similar to gimp but it has more emphasis on painting. 

Darktable is also a very good program for working with photographs. 

The problem when you compare it to commercial software is most of these program are done by small teams who don't get paid, so the features added to these programs tend to be features these programmers use, you don't always see the thing you needed in them, and because there specialised programs you don't get the amount of development attention that other Free Software sees. 

Its easy to help fix this, take part in the community, report bugs or write documentation to help them and request the features you think would benefit the application. If you can program, help add those features.

7

The user base of Linux is often seen as a bunch of guys who refuse to pay for their software and any proprietary thing is discarded by them as something infiltrating their privacy. Devs often want their software to be closed source so that nobody will "steal" their code and redistribute it for free without any DRM or whatever. Also software engineers like to implement security by means of obscurity, which is less effort and time spent on making sure there are no major security flaws.

The user-base of Linux actually develops most of their software by itself, and actually allot of the free software is payed for by donations. Also Devs aren't the ones pushing for DRM, it's their software-vendor-overlords that are stuck in a 90's vision of selling digital-goods, refusing to accept the fact that digital goods are near infinitely abundant. Security by obscurity is an oxymoron, decompilers eat obscurity for lunch, software engineers that like to implement security that way are a menace.

 

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Well Linux isn't as it used to be and it's getting better. I've had no problem setting an multiple monitor setup using an AMD video card, I did this on a PC and on an Laptop and it worked without a problem. About standards that's an issue, but curently Wayland is set to replace xorg and not run allong or anything else whilist providing backwards compatibility with xorg. Wayland is great and it's at 1.5 version right now, there much to be done but in the end it will be easier to work with it than it was with xorg. The Kronos group gathered a lot of people from the Linux bunch and it's starting to rewrite OpenGL to be more cleaner and to be a competitor to DirectX12. AMD has also joined and made their drivers open-source and made the code to the Mantle API available to the Kronos group. This is important because both consoles (xbone and ps4) have AMD graphics that can benefit from that, so if developers start making OpenGL games for consoles porting them to Linux will be a breeze. Another thing worth mentioning is Valve's SteamOS, now that they've joined the Linux crowd it's obvious they will work together with driver makers and probably add their own code to relevant projects.

Also, what's the deal with all of these 'professionals'? Every time I hear (on the internet at least) about a professional it's someone using Photoshop or 3dsMax. Photoshop works on Linux with Wine really well, yes the 3D doesn't work but all of the features these professionals look for are working. Not be bashing or anything but anyone that i've seen at least to use Photoshop at it's full capacity is on a Mac.

 
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For video add this: Pitivi

Regarding Lightworks have you tried the beta?

You probably need Lightroom to work with RAW files so you can replace it with this:

RawTherapee

http://rawtherapee.com/

I can't help you with audio since I don't have any experience with it.

 
10

Darktable also allows you to work with raw files, both are quite good.

11

I didn't know about Darktable, i'm gonna try and research a bit on it.