I'm calling you out Logan. Tek 0227 - China credit score system

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@Logan

I'm late to the watch party on this episode, and am just now watching it. During the part where you're discussing the article about China's credit score system for citizens, Logan states "When we were over there, some of the people were talking about it and they weren't really happy, but China doesn't really like it when you talk about these kinds of things on the air, so it would endanger out ability to return to the country."

Logan, I love you and all the other tek syndicalists, but you gotta be called out on this. This is straight bullshit homie. Straight bullshit cowardice, from my perspective, to put it bluntly. And I don't mean any disrespect, and I'm not going to quit watching the show or posting on the forum or buying things from the store or contributing to tek support when I can afford it, I still support you guys 100%, but I have to call you out on this bullshit.

You shouldn't be censoring yourself, and censoring the input you got from actual Chinese citizens, just because you want to return to China some day. If they're doing shit like this, don't go there. Why support the country with your tourism if they are so authoritarian that you cannot even state the local scuttle butt from the streets of China on issues like this?

I realize that China is where all of the manufacturing in the tech industry is done, and it's interesting to see factories and all that as a viewer of technology related media, but this is ridiculous. China doesn't like you talking about this, so you're not going to talk about this? Come the fuck on man. That's total B.S.

Let's say China isn't the manufacturing center of the tech world, let's say it's Saudi Arabia. So it's Saudi Arabia, and you like to go there to see the factories and make videos for your viewers. But you find out that Saudi Arabia kills gay people and atheists. Are you going to mum's the word on the tek just so you can go back? Obviously a good citizen score card and killing gay people and atheists aren't equivalent, but both are authoritarian, and both should be called out.

Earlier in the show you were talking about how a vendor didn't want to work with you guys because you don't figuratively go down on them like other tek shows do. WTF ARE YOU DOING WITH CHINA IN THIS INSTANCE? You're going down on them man. You're bending over for big brother China and censoring yourself, censoring the things Chinese citizens told you, and you're filtering out that information from your audience who would be very interested to hear what the Chinese people said to you on this issue. So you're going to rightfully tell vendors who pay content creators to push their products to take a hike, but you're going to keep your lips shut for an authoritarian government that creates a horrible repressive good citizen score card system just so you can continue going to visit there?

Personally speaking, I don't even watch the Chinese videos, or even the CPAC stuff or anything like that. I could care less if you never produced another video from China. I can't speak for other people, but that's me. I don't want to see you self censor because you want to go back to China.

As an Anarchist, I cannot let something like this slide. I'm sorry for being so harsh on you, but you need some tough love here Logan.

If I'm way off base, feel free to argue your case. Maybe I just have my Anarchist blinders on, but this is a very clear instance to me where you very clearly fucked up big time, and you shouldn't be doing what you just did, ever.

Love you.

<3

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I'm sorry @Logan, now I feel bad. I found you a cat named bean dip on reddit :(

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I can see the reply now. PRAGMATISM!

It is the same as when I frequently call them out over their nVidia affiliation... Wrong word... Eh bias... No still not right... Contradiction that's the one.

Always trumpeting that we need AMD and how nVidia are ruining the game industry one corporate buyout at a time and yet they all run nVidia and openly shun AMD. For fucks sake their game runs hair works because it looks better, it is bloody quasi 2D hair works won't even be visible and why not use tressFX then? It looks every bit as good and runs just as well on both cards, actually a little better on nVidia I think now.

But no, pragmatism. It is the cheap way of saying one thing and doing another.

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hmmm I don't think he necessarily made it about one type of thing while he was out there, plus you're sort of endangering yourself, not just your career, when you speak about things that threaten the government.

I wouldn't be against Logan or Qain going out and asking people how they feel about this credit score system and what effects it has had on them.

I'd like to see the unfiltered responses, but if there's a camera involved... generally I feel that the citizens would stay filtered and drink the kool-aid for their own sake... not how they really feel about it.

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Hears a thought....maybe they enjoy the country, it's people, food, culture and tourism. The tek doesn't choose China's government nor can change anything about it.....so how about you calm down, stop swearing so much and be rational before you embarrass your self.

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While @Logan prefers nvidia cards, if I am recalling correctly @Pistol 's rig was AMD all the way. Though now I think with the X99 build its Intel for the CPU, however the GPU is still AMD. Not sure on @wendell 's rig, but he seems to me a guy that just uses what works better for the task at hand, or budget given.

I was disappointed when @Logan said he was using hairworks, I don't know why he is not using tressFX. Could be on the developer, what he is used to or maybe there is something else?? I would like to know, not that we necessarily deserve to know but I would love to know @Logan 's rational.

@Zibob when you say shun AMD, could you clarify? I recall them talking about poor driver support (which they do need to work on imo) but shuning? Think more people think they shill/take it easy on them (not me but I see a lot of comments)

Sorry for the side tangent @Resistor, just think that the blanket "yet they all run nVidia and openly shun AMD" is not very factual, however the Hairworks vs TressFX was an interesting one that does seem counter to Logans previous comments on it.

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I think that, while you have some good points, this is a good example of the phrase "know when to pick your battles"

Now this is just my take on it, censoring, by what I believe your definition of it to be, the topic would be never bringing it up or even saying the things he said in the video. He, @Logan / @wendell and the TEK crew, were being tactful in how they brought it up and I think there is a good distinction between the two.

They didn't keep their lips shut, didn't censor what people said to him, He said they didn't like it and they reported on what is happening in a tactful way so that you can look it up and know. They wanted to inform us, the viewers, of what is happening with out jeopardizing access to the country, or harassment while in china from the Chinese government. To me that is a far cry from getting free stuff or money from a company to sell products and shill.

I think there is merit to what you say @Resistor, however I think you do yourself a disservice to your emotions get the best of you. You seem very passionate and I respect that to be honest, however these people, the TEK crew, are just human and must live in a human world. I think today there is to much "you must be for this or that there is no middle ground" and that's not how the world works, and that's not how you change the world for good. Real change is never sudden, it takes time and planing, we have many many examples of that today. I don't think anything would be gained for just laying into the Chinese government for this, nor is anything lost but simply saying "hey read this" to allow us to be informed.

Sorry if long and ramblely, however while I do not share you opinion @Resistor I hope that we will get a response from one of the TEK crew on this. I like hearing different sides and opinions on topic like this, and I thank you for your post, made me think.

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Your perspective is a little off. I'm not fond of many of their policies but China is an amazing place full of some great people, good food, epic infrastructure, amazing nature, etc.

China is also way ahead of the USA in many regards. Doing anything to jeopardize my ability to travel would be incredibly stupid. There is too much to learn from China and most Americans have no desire to go there. I desire a global perspective.

You know what i think of the credit score thing. It's obvious. The rest was me alluding to how i feel while also goofing about what I'm "not supposed to talk about". No need for this post at all IMO, but you're entitled to your opinion.

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I had nothing to do with the hairworks decision. The developer used it and it, frankly, looks 200x better than vanilla. I have told them to try to find an alternative or keep their eyes open for one as we are developing the game. There isn't tressfx for unreal engine yet. That's the real issue. I'd be totally willing to work with their team to implement it though.

At the end of the day, I'm pragmatic. I'll use what works and looks the best, but I'll try like hell not to use something from gameworks.

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Yeah sure, when they were comparing the fury x on release they liked it more a talked great things about it, then turned around and not only never bought one but never recommended it again, literally never heard from any more.

Then on the tek when he says they are using hair works openly scoffs at AMD users because they can't run it. From supporting them to just deriding them... "Pragmatism, nVidia works best for us" fine point taken, if you are going to run nVidia and hinder AMD even when you are in control of a situation where you could support them for once rather than just talking about it then stop saying you support AMD. The clearly don't and if they plain just said we don't care about AMD we prefer nVidia there would be no argument. But it always comes round to them saying his we need them and they are great and then take every opportunity to just deride it and now actively working against it in the face of viable alternatives.

On the drivers I have been using AMD since the 7870 and the drivers have always been great except for the aforementioned gameworks problems. Recently nVidia have been getting much flack for bricking laptops, black screening PCs terrible drivers and over all not doing a good jjob of software. No one on the YouTube front seem to mention this but are all too happy to point out the perfectly fine "terrible" AMD drivers which are keeping up blow for blow in fair games.

Edit: to clarify because I am sure this will get misconstrued, my problem is not that they use nVidia. It is that what is continually said is "we need amd" "amd are good" "buy amd" "use more amd" and then the result is never once AMD it would make more sense to never say AMD anything and just do what you do because being told all the time and then never seeing it out into practice is just annoying on so many levels and look terrible.

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I thought as much, and I think you have always stated that you have been pragmatic about pretty much everything. I hope the developer can find something else besides Hairworks but if not, I hope he allows me to turn it off haha.

Appreciate the response to this and the OP, you didn't have to but it is nice for clarity in the community, thank you.

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I think Logans post kinda clears up the hairworks thing, as for the other points I do agree they haven't done to much amd content lately (I could just be missing it) . On the flip side what would you have them do to promote AMD more? If I'm not mistaken many of the products they get are given, as review copy's some to keep some to give back. If they are not getting AMD review samples that could be the reason. I personally use AMD and prefer it, and to be honest I don't see the language used when they talk on AMD good or bad to be "bashing" or condescending.

Again I don't really agree with your view, that is not what I get from them when I listen to them but I will keep an open mind. I think debate is good, even if I don't agree with it, to keep everyone thinking. However just pointing out the bad without a suggestion on how to remedy the problem is counterproductive imo. Thank you for replying however, and being very frank while also respectful.

We, or at lest I, don't all want to blindly follow and just take everything said at face value.

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@Logan

I apologize for the tone of my post. I was overly profane and antagonistic, and I apologize for that. I let my emotions get the best of me which I often do, and I apologize for my tone.

I do stand by my criticism though, and I'll further express that I worry that your desire for access will prevent you from being objective in terms of the Chinese government, just as the American media's desire for access prevents objectivity in coverage of the U.S. government.

I have no doubt that there are many great people in China, and the infrastructure and natural beauty of the country is wondrous. I also wholeheartedly agree that China is ahead of the U.S. in many aspects, and authoritarianism is one of them.

I'll end on three notes. The first is what I'd like to see out of a China video.

The type of China video I'd personally like to see out of Tek Syndicate, is coverage of all the different ways China technologically subjugates their population, and all the ways the people of China rise up above that subjugation. I'm sure there must be grass roots level technological activist groups in China. Coverage of this sort of thing is what I personally would like to see. Someone may say "here's a documentary on that," but I'd like to see this sort of coverage out of Tek Syndicate. Stuff like this is how you raze the world.

My second note, is a question. What would it take for Tek Syndicate to say, "OK, the Chinese government has gone too far. We're never going back there"? What would it take?

My final note, again, is an apology for the tone of my post. I'm sorry Logan, I need to learn to cool my jets before posting about something I'm passionate about. I shouldn't have come at you the way I did, and I'm truly sorry for that.

<3

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I would also like to know in what ways china is "ahead" of the US. I have heard Logan say that a lot and have read it here on the forums but I haven't heard specifics.

If they are in a video I would appreciate being pointed toward that video.

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Primarily technology, infrastructure, and even capitalism.

Our infrastructure is extremely legacy. Theirs is unreal. It's like blade runner over there. They are not doing everything right by any means, but when you land in one of their cities it feels like you are landing 20 years in the future.

The rural areas are a different story, but their middle class is growing fast while ours is shrinking. There are lessons we could learn. One of the main ones is that they do not spend as much money policing the world. They spend money at home. We spend money on war. We could build one LHC ever month with our war budget. We could redo our infrastructure, etc.

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Make no mistakes about their war budget, either...China is on an upward trajectory that will expand exponentially. Part of that trajectory is matching US military investment, and making territorial claims. They've been open about their desire to have a global military to rival the US military. They have a strong interest in protecting commercial interests. As their foreign investments rise, they will continue to invest in their military.

While parts of china are very advanced, it's in large part because they're not dealing with maintaining the legacy infrastructure we're faced with in the US. A middle class explosion (which is happening) will pretty much lead to a huge slowdown in infrastructure growth, and already is in some cases.

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Next time you go to china we should see both sides of the coin in terms of this credit scoring thing. Not many people are talking about it, and who knows... maybe it will have positives. Like in the US, it's hard to get credit if you have none. Maybe in China, this is an easy way for responsible adults who make money, to acquire credit more quickly. We should at least get a few interviews on it.

Maybe because it's so new, things will be ironed out in the coming future, like video games won't be a negative on your credit score, but driving fast will ( as it should )

Or maybe dissent won't be a negative, instead hate groups focused on discrimination will. Thoughtful dissent with valid arguments is good for everyone, and I don't think everyone in China thinks alike when it comes to this.

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I think we're being a little too demanding of Logan and the crew. His safety is the most important thing. I don't want to put the show in jeopardy, by being a martyr for a political cause. I think though that some discretion can be applied and new information can be gathered without harming anyone, next time he's in China. It's not required and actually I appreciate very much that he's so receptive and willing to communicate with the community like this, as more of a down to earth member than a cult leader. Major respect @Logan Above all else, stay safe. If you can't do it, then you can't do it and you aren't letting any of us down.

Thanks for all your hard work.

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I have AMD and NVIDIA in my rig now. I actually prefer the AMD drivers this generation. Pistol is all AMD. Qain is running crossfire. I did not request hairworks. I'm sure we will have an alternative before the game launches. It does look nice now and will be better than nothing for the trailers and such.

I haven't been talking about much hardware lately. I'm sure we will soon after moving into the office.

Happy?

On a juicy gossip note, Nvidia is extremely nice and easy to work with. There are good individuals working there. AMD... We spoke with with a new marketing hire (at CES). He told us that when he was hired he was told Tek Syndicate was the enemy. He liked us but wasn't allowed to support us. So he started asking what we did wrong and nobody knew. They just knew we were, "bad". So I'm not sure what that's about since we are the #1 most supportive tech site they have. This is how AMD has always been. They are a mess in the marketing area. We received AMD support once and that was actually from a 3rd party marketing company. Sapphire is good to work with too.

At this point I really want to figure out a way to get with their team and work on implementing TressFX into Unreal Engine. I can't believe there isn't already a plugin for it.

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