I want high performance at a low cost

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1

OK, so two years ago I got student loans from a community college. After spending what I needed for books, I decided it was time to invest in my first gaming PC. I didn't build it myself, instead I used eCollegePC. I have an i5 2500K, GTX 580, 4 GB RAM, a P8P67-M PRO motherboard, I forget what kinda power supply... the point is I spent $1400 or so on this thing.

I feel this is wasted money. NOT only because of the tired and true argument that I could have saved a lot of money by doing it myself, but also because I don't need this shit. At the time, I was bored with consoles and wanted to try out games like Skyrim and Mass Effect with prettier graphics. I didn't realize, however, this would bore me just as quickly.

I'm not a snob about it, but I'm mostly a fan of indie games these days. Stuff like Mark of the Ninja, Toki Tori, Bastion. I simply don't need a GTX 580. Granted, I have it now so if for some bizarre reason I need it, I'll have it. But for a future build, I'd like to focus on frame rate performance over graphics. For the RARE big budget games I'd like to play, I could handle 1080p resolution at around 60 frames per second on medium graphics, even low if I must, but preferably medium. 2x anti-aliasing at the most.

 So, I have some questions.

1. Do I need an expensive motherboard for what I'm doing? I don't want fancy bells and whistles beyond the ability to plug in speakers, keyboard/mouse, and an Xbox 360 controller.

2. Do I need more than 4 GB RAM? Even 8 GB seems like overkill, but I suppose with how cheap RAM is 8 GB would be fine.

3. Similarly, do I need a fancy CPU? I don't do any video editing, so an i7 seems absolutely useless to me. 

4. Will a GTX X60 (not a 660 or 760, but its future equivalent when I decide it's time for me to upgrade) be equivalent for my needs? Or if it's too silly and difficult to predict that far into the future, what about today? Would a 660 give me an approximate 60fps?

I know I'm very stupid when it comes to PCs. My fault for choosing to have my first one built by someone else. But hey, never too late to get educated. I've read up a bit and understand a little more. All I know is I'm a tad annoyed because there isn't a WHOLE lot that I can find that supports low-to-mid range gamers like myself. It's always written with the hardcore gamer in mind. So I'm not sure, DO I need all this stuff or not?

2

I think your solution is based on AMD's CPU/APU... Wait for a month if you want the newest line of APU called "Richland"... Current lineup is "Trinity".

"Richland" will also use FM2 socket like Trinity so you can first buy a FM2 motherboard and 2133Mhz DDR3 RAM 16Gb since more RAM and higher frequinces(mhz's) means greater performance for your APU(Accelerated Processing Unit - similar to IGP but better, inside a CPU). Since if you decide to wait for "Richland" APU I think you can get right away 7xxx series GPU that is compatible with "Richlands" APU. There is a sweet deal for Radeon HD 7xxx GPU's, check it on the new or youtube. If you get 79xx you get Crysis 3 and Bioshock Infinite for free, if you get 78xx series you get Bioshock: Infinite and Tomb Raider(reboot, latest)...

Currently you can get a decent build based on "Trinity" APU with best CPU/APU A10 5800k APU 7660D. If you got 600-650$ you can get a beast for it and play Battlefield 3 at 1080p60fpsUltra if you overclock everything, CPU, APU to allow 2133mhz DDR3 RAM and overclock GPU. It depends on what motherboard you use for the results, if possible to enable to use 2133Mhz if you want to get maxed out performance.

With 650$ build based on "Trinity" you can get best possible expirience for the buck possibly and later upgrade it. AMD is the best option for bang for a buck or dollar for performance. You cant go wrong with AMD if you do the research. Also all current Intel sockets are now dead... So yea.

3

So, will that always be true in the future? Has it been in the past? Assuming the entry/mid-range prices stay relatively similar, in five years can I spend $400-600 for a "budget" PC and get 60fps on medium/high settings?

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Yes... "Trinity" series were released in end of Q3 of 2012 or in beggining of Q4 in 2012... Next month on March 19 there will be "Richland", here is the video, guy plays Battlefield 3 on 1080p resolution 40-60 fps at Ultra graphic details, if overclocked he would probavly get a steady 50-60+ FPS. You can play most or all 2012 games at decent details and resolution...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ5hhGrOKAk

Yes, its possible... I think that PC's will get somewhat similar to consoles  in a way that IGP will be inside a CPU, so yea AMD's APU. I dont think Intel can do it really well. AMD is really the king, Intel only get to the throne because of its marketing like apple, sabotaging AMD in results and benchmarking and that. Antitrust laws and that... Intel was one of the latest CPU manufactures, I think Jonh Carmack was bribed to develop only for Pentium in 1996 so yea. Intel started playing dirty. Cyrix was better than Intel and NEC. Cyrix did reverse enginering but they turn it into own product and they settled with Intel, Intel then do similar thing to Cyrix and they did the same thing what Intel did to them.. A deal.

Intel is just like Activision :P Nicely packet products that are crap, while bribing reviews and that crap.

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You'd be amazed what these APU's can do.

The AMD A10-5800k with 8Gb RAM @ 1866Mhz can run BF3 on Ultra @ 720P with 30-40Fps in multiplayer.

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gotta join the choir.  an APU would be the way to go.  you can build the system for less then $500; and when it's time to upgrade just swap out the CPU... you'll get an instant CPU/GPU upgrade.

clever design, and clever chip.

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I've been looking into this a little bit and while I'm still a little confused, the idea that I can get something to suit my needs for $400 or so (because why get a dedicated graphics card now?) is very exciting. Only thing is now I need to learn how to overclock. And what's the smallest size case this will fit?

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That's down to the PSU an motherboard..Of course you're going to want a Midi case anyway so you can slap a dedicated GPU in there to crossfire with the core if you feel you ever need more power.

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I've been looking into this a little bit and while I'm still a little confused, the idea that I can get something to suit my needs for $400 or so (because why get a dedicated graphics card now?) is very exciting. Only thing is now I need to learn how to overclock. And what's the smallest size case this will fit?

Well, if you're concerned about size, use the new Asrock A85X Mini ITX formfactor motherboard.  You'll pay about $100 for it, but it will give you a fully functioning motherboard  with a tiny footprint.  Then you can stick the pc in an HTPC box.

So... to answer your question, it can get pretty small... very small if you don't want to use an optical drive.  If you want an optical drive the minimum size will be a little bigger then a shoe box or a DVR.... if you can skip the optical drive, you're talking about something a little bigger then an external DVD player.

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he did overclock the cpu

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I would like to clarify that Intel does not make "crap products." They make great CPUs, they are just overpriced. I regret not going with an 8350 or an i7 3820 when I built my system. Instead, I got an i7 3770k, and while the performance is superb, I spent too much money on it. If you are getting a discrete GPU, it doesn't make much sense to get an APU, and AMD themself has said that they are no longer going to be competing with the high-end CPUS that Intel is making, i.e. Sandy Bridge-E and soon-to-be Ivy Bridge-E, and instead, will be aimed at the mainstream market. Overall, both companies make great CPUs, but AMD wins hands-down for price/performance.

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You dont need an expensive PC to play some triple AAA games at Ultra, atleast Battlefield 3... My build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Dk36

I did alot of researching, looking at newegg feedbacks/reviews, reviews and performance results... Videos and that... For 600$ this is a beast.

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If I get a cheap video card to go with this (Sapphire HD 6670 1 GB), will the APU and GPU work in tandem with one another? Will I get a graphics boost that way or will the APU only be used as a CPU? I'm looking at this build in particular or one similar in price: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DjAt



And about overclocking: I know I've read that is easier and safer than it has been in the past, but I'm still worried since I've never done it before. Is there ANY chance it will damage my parts? And if so, what will happen to the life expectancy? Does it damage it to such a negligible degree that I have no need to worry?

I'll ask more random questions as they come to me. Thanks for all the help, guys. Must suck dealing with a newbie like me. :P

14

Yes, but in the BIOS you need to make sure the APU is set as the primary GPU for them to work in crossfire.

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Only AMD APUs and GPUs can Crossfire together. You would get a boost, but the 6670 1GB is ancient. If you are going to add a discrete GPU to Crossfire, I would recommend the 7770. It is  very inexpensive and will perform much better than the 6670.

The chance of a mild overclock damaging your components is practically nonexistant. When you go crazy, such as 5gHz+, can limit the life-expectancy of the CPU, but anything below ~4.7 will not noticably change the life-expectanc within the time that you will be using the CPU (or APU.) Overvolting, however, can damage the components. It is very possible to overclock, but undervolt. Some people throw way to much voltage at the CPU, which can fry the delicate components. Make sure that you read/watch some tutorials that are current, and idealy about your specific CPU/APU.

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Thanks. I was looking on other forums like this, and your build is the best. I needed to be a little cheaper in my build. +9000 Karma

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Will that limit the power of the CPU in any way?

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Running in Crossfire?..Or overclocking?

 

Crossfire, by no means will it limit that CPU power.

 

Overclocking, it will greatly improve it.

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The Unchosen Won, your build is nice if he wants to go cheap ass and thats somewhat of a problem. Your HDD not as reliable as WD's, you use a 2133Mhz DDR3 RAM with higher timing latency and it even costs more, your case is nice except it has already a power supply that is not reliable since its most likely a very cheap one compared to one in my build that has a power supply with a safety features so he's gaming rig does not go into flames. GPU in my build is more suited for him and costs only 15$ more because your is on promo otherwise they have very similar price..

I respect your build, but if he can afford an Intel I think he can afford a build that is better in something while in others same. Except I did my research well and I spend an hour yesterday and today modified it a bit, its quality and quality... Less chances that it will have a failuer...

Build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Dk36 (quality, longevity, realiability, ect... a bit under 600$, 4,55$ under... if you can afford it.)

 

20

I'd say ditch the SSD to keep the cost down.