Hacktivism and Vigilante Justice

Привет!

I’m curious what everyone here thinks of topics such as Hacktivism, and Vigilante Justice?

I think there are needs for both, in certain areas. Sometimes the only way to affect change is to do so via direct action, through hacking.

For instance, though the change in law was very brief, a very significant change in US law happened not too long ago because of a Hacktivist.

A little background: In 2001 Congress passed the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), and in 2011 Barack Obama signed into law the 2011 NDAA, which codified into law powers assumed under the AUMF, which granted the federal government the authority to suspend due process, and indefinitely detain Americans charged with terrorism with no charge, trial, or legal counsel.

This law was ever so briefly overturned, after a lawsuit by journalists Chris Hedges and Alexa O’Brien.

On Friday the 28-year-old activist
will appear for sentencing in the Southern District Court of New York
in Manhattan. After having made a plea agreement, he faces the
possibility of a 10-year sentence for hacking into the Texas-based
private security firm Strategic Forecasting Inc., or Stratfor, which
does work for the Homeland Security Department, the Marine Corps, the
Defense Intelligence Agency and numerous corporations including Dow
Chemical and Raytheon.

Hammond turned the pilfered information over to the website WikiLeaks and Rolling Stone
and other publications. The 3 million email exchanges, once made
public, exposed the private security firm’s infiltration, monitoring and
surveillance of protesters and dissidents, especially in the Occupy
movement, on behalf of corporations and the national security state.
And, perhaps most important, the information provided chilling evidence
that anti-terrorism laws are being routinely used by the federal
government to criminalize nonviolent, democratic dissent and falsely
link dissidents to international terrorist organizations. Hammond sought
no financial gain. He got none.

The email exchanges Hammond made public were entered as evidence in my lawsuit
against President Barack Obama over Section 1021 of the National
Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). Section 1021 permits the military to
seize citizens who are deemed by the state to be terrorists, strip them
of due process and hold them indefinitely in military facilities. Alexa
O’Brien, a content strategist and journalist who co-founded US Day of
Rage, an organization created to reform the election process, was one of
my co-plaintiffs. Stratfor officials attempted, we know because of the
Hammond leaks, to falsely link her and her organization to Islamic
radicals and websites as well as to jihadist ideology, putting her at
risk of detention under the new law. Judge Katherine B. Forrest ruled,
in part because of the leak, that we plaintiffs had a credible fear, and
she nullified the law, a decision that an appellate court overturned
when the Obama administration appealed it.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_revolutionaries_in_our_midst_20131110

The authority of the federal government to indefinitely detain American citizens with no charge or trial was overturned, largely because of what Jeremy Hammond did.

Would I do something like this myself? Hell no! Look where it got him. Ten years in prison, and ultimately no change in the law, thanks to an appeal by The Obama administration. There is too much risk involved in something like this, and no possible reward, because when it comes to the United States, hacktivism, just like voting, protest, and violence, does not affect positive change for the common citizen. There is no positive change for the common citizen in America. There is only positive change for the corporations, at the expense of the common citizen.

I think the United States is basically a doomed, sinking ship, and nothing will save it. So my plan of action is to bail I think.

On the topic of Vigilante Justice, I think this is also necessary in some cases.

For instance, someone I know personally was, within the last eight to twelve years, scammed out of a very large sum of money by an overseas scammer. Through complete access to my personal acquaintance’s accounts, I was able to discover the identify of the scammer, and found that they were part of a large scam ring that had been active for at least several years.

We took this information to the authorities, and were told that my acquaintance’s loss, which was somewhere between eight thousand and thirty five thousand dollars, wasn’t substantial enough to warrant investigation. So I put the scammer right in the authorities’ laps, and they didn’t even fucking look at the case.

So in a situation like this, what is a person to do? Do absolutely nothing, and find no justice, or try to do something, and maybe have a chance of finding some sort of justice?

To me, the answer is clear. Doing nothing is not an option, in cases like this.

So what say you, Level1Hacking?

You can't be against the suspension of due process and for vigilante justice.

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I disagree with the threat of terrorism being used by the state to suspend constitutionally protected rights whenever convenient. We are living in one of the most peaceful times in history with crime at record lows. The government and the media feed us fear to maximize the power they have over us.

I think as the powers of the state have been growing in the last 15 years, it becomes more and more important for it to become more transparent. Something it has completely failed to do. The only thing worse than suspending constitutionally protected rights when convenient is, suspending constitutionally protected rights in secret. If legally the government can secretly suspend our right to privacy, can't the government legally secretly suspend our right to vote or to free speech? Maybe following a Trump presidency, Muslim votes will no longer be tallied because of the threat of terrorists voting to undermine the government. Or maybe because of the disinformation and propaganda spread by the liberal news media and terrorists the votes for everyone will be completely thrown out and different results fabricated because the damage done if Trump does not win a 2nd term is too great.

The US government is the most powerful entity in the world. Going up against it by yourself or with a small group is always a losing cause.

Do I think its a sinking ship? Before Bernie's relative success in this election cycle, I probably would of said yes. But I think its possible for the system to be righted now. Its not going to happen in the next 4 years, but I don't think the movement Bernie has fired up is going to die.

2 Likes

Hey Atatax, great post.

Exactly! The most basic and fundamental legal rights of due process, and legal counsel don't exist, so the entire constitution is basically irrelevant now. None of the protections it's supposed to afford citizens matter.

And the entire collective of voting citizenry loses as well.

The report, entitled Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens,
used extensive policy data collected from between the years of 1981 and
2002 to empirically determine the state of the US political system.
After sifting through nearly 1,800 US policies enacted in that period
and comparing them to the expressed preferences of average Americans
(50th percentile of income), affluent Americans (90th percentile) and
large special interests groups, researchers concluded that the United
States is dominated by its economic elite.

The peer-reviewed study, which will be taught at these universities in
September, says: "The central point that emerges from our research is
that economic elites and organised groups representing business
interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy,
while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no
independent influence."

Researchers
concluded that US government policies rarely align with the the
preferences of the majority of Americans, but do favour special
interests and lobbying organisations: "When a majority of citizens
disagrees with economic elites and/or with organised interests, they
generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built
into the US political system, even when fairly large majorities of
Americans favour policy change, they generally do not get it."

I think it remains to be seen, but requires wider perspective.

Bernie's movement is a carry over from Occupy Wall Street. OWS had the potential to be huge, and had the potential to lead to political revolution. It was violently suppressed by the state, in conjunction with the corporations.

Fast forward to this election cycle, and Bernie was cheated by the DNC and corporate media.

So this implies that the movement is not going away, and does indeed seem to show that it is gaining power politically. Maybe it's just going to take more decline of the state of basically everything in America for the high water mark to be reached, and change to be accomplished. Who knows? All that is clear, however, is that the federal government, and the corporations are fighting and subjugating the citizens at every turn.

I think the justification of specific cases of hacktivism can be reasonably debated. With respect to leveraging technology and networks to inform change, I would focus on creating products and forums that enable people (and smarter dogs) to organize themselves into movements, and more feasibly vote with their feet. To develop on the establishment of OWS, these networks are only going to become more effective, and hopefully more pragmatic. I understand that I am deeply biased in favor of optimism.

the whole "terrorism" thing that governments use as an excuse to spy on citizens is BS. It is just a simple excuse to make it sound like there doing something good but I'm pretty sure nothing terrorist has been stopped using the methods of keeping a close eye on what everyone does.

Well if it wasn't for snowden we wouldn't be as paranoid as we are today. After that shit went down I remember a hellstorm of people running onto the forum and making post after post HOW DO I DO LINUX I AM A SPOOPED. Hacktivism is just another form of free speech and part of the constitution. "The people bare the right to tear down and start anew in the face of a form of government unwanted by society". Its my favorite thing the founding fathers did and enacting on that is just as patriotic for the country as it is to fight for it, intentions bearing.

Obviously if someone were doing something like this:

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1lhGqNCZlA

it would indeed be a different story. However we have more than enough evidence to know that whatever is done at this point and forced into the light is just going to go deeper into the rabbit hole. Fuck it. My family came on the damn mayflower I should be able to do something about this broken as fuck state.

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Think if intentions really are just good it's good thing.

This all anyways falls into countering someone being bad person if its for example, causing soldiers being in danger. They will bluntly state that soldiers are going to die even though point of the whole thing isn't about soldiers. Second they will pull out something nasty and its just about painting status above all else.

Also generally just spying everything is stupid and I'd rather buy the data from others who have already sorted it for you. So every time I read or hear about government this and that it makes me feel like its just decoy cover.

~feelings

they have reason omg :O

Vigilante Justice does not exist. This is not justice, since no due process is involved. This is vindication.

  • As for revenge. In a free society, you are free to choose to attempt any crime at least once. That is your freedom. You are free to take revenge. And to risk sentence for it, if what you do is illegal.
  • As for stopping bad people from doing bad shit. In a free society, you are free to choose to attempt any crime at least once. That is your freedom. You are free to act against them. And to risk sentence for it, if what you do is illegal.

Hacktivism, yes. I support hacktivism as the means to force a positive change. In a free society, you are free to choose to attempt any crime at least once. That is your freedom. You are free to risk a sentence for it.

I disagree. The reward is not to yourself, but to the society. I understand what you mean though, and I don't wish to lose my own life in order to reward the society, but if pushed far and hard enough, who knows? I hope it never comes to that, but that I keep living in a free society, where I am free to choose to commit any crime at least once, and that it is my freedom to do so, and I that am free to act and to risk sentence for it.

I prefer to see hacktivism through the context of civil courage. Most of the time I don't have the courage, but also most of the time I am just trying to influence the people around me directly. God forbid I should ever be forced into having that courage.

As for your own dilemma, doing nothing is never an option. I do not condone private law enforcement. But I do condone stopping a criminal from committing further crimes, which is far more important then exacting a revenge. In a free society...

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The NoDAPL movement is an example of the movement being quite strong even after Bernie's loss.

Well I'm not all that up to speed on NoDAPL, in terms of the social/political activism and protest that's going on around it. But from what I've seen, it's nothing compared to Occupy Wall Street. OWS had massive amounts of people in cities all over the nation rising up and taking to the streets in protest. I just haven't seen this with NoDAPL.

OWS was the high water mark up to this point, and it was doused with sand by the corporate police state.

Well I'll have to say I disagree.

Due process is a process of law, and there is no application of law in my case. The scammer in this case does not reside on the same continent, so there is a challenge of legal jurisdiction.

The scammer that I am referring to is part of a ring of scammers, one that may be very large, and has been active for several years. I'm just going to come out and say it. I know the identity of a member of this ring, and I'm going to try to hack them to gain a foothold, and try to infiltrate their ring, and exfiltrate whatever data or money I'm able to. An A+, gold star for excellence award would be hacking this individual, retrieving the money they stole, and giving it back to the victim, and see how far the rabbit hole goes.

To me, that would be justice.

I'm currently working on two operations on this. It was just one, but the victim that I know, knows someone that recently also became a victim, so I have two operations that may become one huge operation. They may be unrelated groups, however.

Hopefully some day, I'll make a Magnum Opus post in this forum detailing these operations, accompanied with news articles of a large ring of scammers, responsible for the theft of probably hundreds of thousands of dollars, being busted.

I know what you're saying. In some ways, I would agree with the concept, but to me it makes more sense put this way:

You know, it's pretty interesting. Through my associate's experience, I've been cast into a new world. A specific world. A niche scam world, one of just many niche scam worlds. There are many many victims in this world. People that are completely innocent, and there are many challenges. You might not realize it, but one of the greatest challenges is getting victims to stand up for themselves and take action.

I know of several people that have been scammed, and they simply won't even report it to the authorities, for various reasons, such as not wanting a spouse to find out, and I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating this is.

Are you the hacker 4chan

No, Im Resistor. 4chan is my .... challenged ... friend.

For sure, I can see what you are saying. But I would not use the word justice in this case - I don't really mind that you do, I am simply deeply uncertain that the word "justice" is sufficiently correct to apply in this case.

But I still think that the only thing we disagree on here is definition of justice. Is justice a satisfaction? A compensation for damages? Vengeance? My meaning is that you can never be truly and accurately compensated, or punished. For that reason we have courts, which are essentially a part of a system of negotiation between citizens within a country, negotiating on what punishment and damages are reasonable for each crime (through legislation).

I would certainly help you out with taking out the fucker if I could nevertheless. But if you would have me apply the word "justice" to that, then it would have to involve courts. I simply don't think this is justice, even if it turns out to be better than actual justice :) .

Oh I realize that all too well. On one side, as a victim you don't want to waste more of your energy on going all the way through with a difficult hunt. On the other, if you don't, you are letting the rats and cockroaches multiply until they eat through all of the walls in the society. Scammers are really good at making it costly to fight on every level. If you go through with this, please watch yourself. You are doing society a great service (I really mean that), but I wouldn't call that service "justice" for the reasons explained. Sincerely, best of luck.

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What is a good argument/debate without conclusion?

What would you call it? :)

I would call it self-help:

Those who value safety more than freedom deserve neither.