Guys, I want to work on Computers. Here is just some mess which is a wall in front of me. And linux has priority

I am not sure how to write this. Usually writing is what I am becoming a master of in my abilities. Sorry if it may get messy, without me even noticing, even after I've read through all of this for quality assurance (fuzzy words I start using here). I've been gone from this forum so strongly, that I already feel like a stranger again. Some of you guys may recognize me. (I hope you remember the moments where I was rather great, and not an idiot :)_) By the way: gnumber if you read this, thanks for the help recently with my last forum topic. I dropped you a private message recently. (I am unsure if I've written my E-Mail 100% correct :/)

 

As you guys have perhaps noticed with the title, I am going to ask for suggestions based on your experiences, on what I should do next. Now there was a long phase where I was not learning, but rather more of recovering to get my discipline up, to do things. Now is the time to do.

Coming closer to my dilemma: I am interested in everything. Seriously. To make it more exact: Hardware is awesome, software is awesome. I would like to tinker around with both. Repairing: no problem. Making: no problem. I like it. What my problem is: I want to learn in a way, so I learn what I want. I see people, who go the: "I love being an antisocial nerd, who acts like I am an overlord genius compared to you little minds." route.

That's not the person I want to be, and I am afraid that I will land into these folks like a bird that didn't know which way was the way to his destination. My specialty software wise became linux. I want to work mainly on linux. It's not that I am not interested in other operating systems. But if I spend most of my time in Windows, I lost. Because I don't like it. I can't stand it, the deeper I go into linux. Now, this has robbed me time. I should have made this topic like a year ago. Now I am 19 years old. With this comes the pressure of independence. Not just because I am 19, but especially because I am actually really becoming independent.

There are several routes I could go. You could call it "career wise", if you want to. And with this comes the first problem: I have no idea about this industry. I have not met anyone in person having to do with this industry, (it will change) besides of a guy, who was talking so much Windows, that I slapped linux metaphorically in his way, especially because he was talking things like: it's too hard, don't want to go that road yet... and the usual other standard stuff you would expect from a sided Windows user. Guess what? He liked it ;). The only source I ever used was the internet. This is the reason I made this topic.

There are some possibilities in my head, on how to start off working wise (and income). I just don't want to see myself being fully educated with linux, and not getting a job. Thinking of these possibilities, when wanting to be on a level, on which I am accepting myself, and somebody maybe me as a worker. What I could do: (what's on my mind)

1.) make an apprenticeship (Lehre in german, I count on you Austrians, Germans, and others with European experience to, just as I count on anyone else)

2.) or do certificates

3.) and there is a university, which I knew for a while, and check out if they could offer me to mess, or at least look at stuff

http://portal.tugraz.at/portal/page/portal/zid/hpc/support

just the line "linux and unix are operating systems for servers" is kind of not OK for me. Since the Desktop experience is gorgeous.

Edit: you can translate the page in English, with Chromium, Chrome, or a Firefox plugin, or whatever^^.

 

You guys noticed, I used the word "career". I don't like that word. Because it says you have just decided in which drawer you fit in. I don't fit. I like writing, movies, novels, and other forms of storytelling. Sometimes I caught myself on something like reading up the Wikipedia page of CG Jung. And just as I drop in the what I call; flow with that, I also stream into the flow with linux. The command line, the system, how and especially why it works. I want to grab a book in the coming months, and learn the command line from the ground up.

I am afraid of the apprenticeship side: 3,5 years. What if the company is going the Microsoft route? I don't know honestly if I should do an apprenticeship. Does it depend on the company? I ask myself. If you have thoughts on this, please share. If I do certificates on the other hand: Will it be enough? I've seen the video of teksyndicate with getting a job in the tech industry. Lets say worst case scenario: I don't find the real linux savvy guys. Will a Certificate be enough? Where is the difference between the linux LPI, and a red hat certificate? Is LPI better for a generalist? 

 

I want to know, and learn linux generally. I am a generalist. If I would make a movie about myself, it would be called: THE GENERALIST.

 

I am also very interested in hardware. Modifying it, and organizing it, and knowing it, etc. Is there some kind of Certificate, which teaches me linux and hardware fixing. I will learn it anyways, but if I do a certificate, well is there a combination with linux and hardware?

 

On the apprenticeship side, I don't find many apprenticeships, which emphasize, that they are using linux. Or they don't mention any operating system at all (the last one is mostly the case). Once there was a company. It was some kind of company working on engineering of cars. And even though there was no mentioning of operating systems, I immediately knew from theyr presentation that everything was leaning on: linux, linux some linux here and there to... did I mention linux? The answer was a no to my applying, but the person was answering with that she searched through the whole company, if there is a need for one more. I was impressed. A second time I nearly got in a company I've been walking past by. I was reading all kinds of stuff. Open Source, servers, website hosting etc. I walked in with a resume, the guy stopped me from talking, and wanted to hire me on the spot. But then I realized: I have seen some kind of job display on his webpage, and I immediately knew he is searching for a trained linux employee. But what I was here for, was actually learning. Just throw me in here, let me mess with stuff. With results! (the result part just didn't get as much emphasizing from me though). Later he wrote me back, and said that he didn't have the necessary requirements for me :/. But he was nice. The atmosphere seemed good. 

 

Now here is the biggest problem: I want to move out in 1, or maximum 2 years. My family is too much of an conservative environment. To make the story short. How would you take the steps on my place? If you would be in my situation, with my motivations, what would you recommend me? Damn, I don't even have a drivers licence yet. Number 1.) scares me, because I try to watch out for companies that rather like linux. The question is, do I have to that much? Or will most companies try hard to teach me linux anyways? 2.) scares me, because I am maybe going to be not as "attractive" for somebody, who for instance needs somebody to look at Microsoft environments sometimes, and has linux environments to, and I've not made a stupid certificate yet for Microsoft environments, even though I probably could fix anything at that time point.

I've made the mistake already once, that I was interested in something, and just picked the wrongest place I ever could. It did not end good for my well being. Now I don't want to make that mistake again. I don't care if I am the right guy at the right place. Or even "the right guy, at the wrong place" (if I understand that satirical sentence right by the G-Man from Half Life?). What I definitely don't want to be, is the guy, who was at the wrong time, at the wrong place.

What would you do in my shoes? I live in Austria, maybe even special recommendations how to do this in this country could come from you guys. I've not very seriously started with the searching. Cause these questions are kind of rambling me. I have no idea. I have tried on perhaps less than 10 companies.

I hope this will be an interesting discussion.

I invite you to share your thoughts. This forum screams effort, and intelligent people. It's the only forum I trust.

 

 

By the way: I am also very interested in hardware. It just did not get out so well, while I was writing about my lack of knowledge. And something I am lacking in exploration, is programming, because I just have let this sit aside. I remember recalling #Brennan, saying C++ is the language to start, if you want to understand. I am asking myself now: C first? Or C++ first? Sorry, for this crazy topic.

Today, I won't be able to participate much into the discussion (I have to work on my sleeping hygiene, keep in mind, I live in the middle of Europe time wise), and tomorrow probably only in the evening (I feel so bad now). But I will come back as soon as I can!

 

Now, if an admin wants to change my category from linux to general discussion, or something else: I WANT TO WORK ON LINUX, and other operating systems. Well... you see. Please don't change it. If I could, I would throw these categories into a nutshell:

#Linux__________________#Hardware

#Unix

#Windows 

If I have to pick one, it should be linux, and Hardware. (damn, can't pick just one)

And I also want this to be in the linux section, so the linux guys see it for sure.

 

P.S.: What is a good book to get an understanding of linux (file system, what linux is, etc.), and learning the command line? Perhaps even trying to master that to a certain degree? I have no problems with English. If there has been a forum topic already specifically about this, maybe just throw the link here. Thank you.

The Linux Bible is a good place to start.

I'm just a stupid electrician / ICT, but I'll throw in my 2 cliché cents that might have a few things in common with this:

You guys noticed, I used the word "career". I don't like that word. Because it says you have just decided in which drawer you fit in. 

Do what you love & love what you do. Also don't forget to always learn something new & improve yourself.

 I don't find the real XXX savvy guys. Will a Certificate be enough?

The tech industry evolves so quickly that a cert might be useful for roughly 2 years; the only thing that matters is your personal skills and foremost your understanding of the field.

The question is, do I have to that much? Or will most companies try hard to teach me XXX anyways? 

By understanding the field rather than the branch it's easy to adapt so don't worry.

2.) scares me, because I am maybe going to be not as "attractive" for somebody, who for instance needs somebody to look at XXX environments 

In that case you're jumping to a wrong field.

the linux bible, lol :). Thanks

To write back to you Baz: I am interested in Microsoft Windows. Learning that would be great to. But I see myself working rather with linux in the long run.

 

Thanks for the comments so far

So from your experience, I will perhaps be happy if I do an apprenticeship, because if I concentrate on the field, the environment which is perhaps even Microsoft Windows dominated won't matter that much?

 

Edit: I am going to go. But thanks for this so far, I will be back.

I can't say which route you should take to educate yourself, that's up to you. E.g. I learn by doing rather than reading so for me apprenticeship would be a better alternative.

An OS is nothing but a tool (unless you're an OS developer), so whether you're using a screwdriver or a hammer it doesn't matter as long as you get the work done. You might prefer one over the other but you still should know how to use them both.

Yeah. I will know how to use them both. And espeacially understand them. The main road just has to consist of linux. I am afraid of the fun being over after a year or so. Alright, I will probably look in this topic tomorrow. (it's getting 1 am in 10 minutes, I will quit quick now today... .)

Is there any chance of getting into high school/uni?

Problem with a practical "Lehre" is that it's a snapshot. In reality, if you want to work in Linux, you have to evolve really quickly, and for that you don't need to "learn Linux" like everyone is "learning Windows", but you have to "learn computing". There is a big difference. There are plenty of people here in Germany, but also in Belgium or France, that know Linux on an "enthusiast" level. That is enough to get a job in closed source, but not in open source. In open source, there is more money, but the threshold is also a lot higher. You really need to get a Master diploma in my opinion.

If you go to uni a long way from home, you have automatically solved the "moving out" problem because you have to go live near the uni, and there is nothing like a change of scenery to discover yourself and your talent. Once you're studying, the precise career goal becomes irrelevant, it's something to worry about later, when you've discovered more about yourself, so that you can make a better decision.

Its like this really - Undergrad Degree, Linux LPIC1 and 2, Red Hat, CISCO.

They are the people you need to be learning from, they are the best in the industries for it, if you have a CCNA and RHCE and RHCSA you are golden, RHCSA allows you to administer almost any Linux network, and it proves you have done it, because the exams are physical, it shows that you can actually do what you say you can, and you can talk about it.

CISCO is the best networking qualification on the planet bar none, these are the industry leaders in networking, they have brilliant IDS and IDPS, brilliant network racks etc etc, all goes here for networking.

LPIC is a great place to start out, it gives a rock solid base on how to work with Linux, and how to understand it, I would attempt another qualification in 3 years before this cert runs out so you can jump to a job with Linux but not need to retake the basics, Anyways LPIC is by the Linux Professional Institue, Comptia also provide it but I went with Linux Academy for this.

Computer Science is a great backbone for you, it allows you to work with programming and scripting on an advanced level and shows your committed to the subject, just don't bother with a masters, it costs to much in the grand scheme of things, While Zoltan opted for a masters and I believe PHd (Correct me) you don't need it to work with Linux, just more as proof your committed, not skilled.

Programming is simple for Linux, C, Perl, Python, also web based so HTML/5, CSS, PHP etc, a friend recommended them to me for any job, trust me, he worked with Ebay on designs.

For moving out, don't worry about family, that is what Skype (Or better Jitsi) was created for, it will do you good to move out, meet new people and make new friends, more than likely life long friends, if you are a shy person like me, just give it a little time, you will make friends but the fact is this, while not talking to them, you learn what they are like.

Also because your family is such a big part of you, like most of us, do not worry, just make them proud by going to uni, proving your fine on your own, you can always see them during term breaks. 

Thank you very much. I respect you, and value your opinions a lot. I did not think about it that way with the "Lehre". Uni is a chance to do. The problem of high school, or what they call: "higher school" from my experiences in Austria is, that it's simply a joke. I was thinking once about going to the HTL (Höhere Technische Lehranstalt/higher technical school). But it seemed just as chaotic, as I've experienced the "higher schools". I have been in an "higher" school, and many students were there, because they are there, or they don't know what they want. I've had a better quality education in my High School, first 8 years of school/"Hauptschule" and many teachers (not all, but too many, and some who just can't because they are handicapped) are doing it as this:

1.) Get into class

2.) Adapt to the Nivea of the class (something that was not happening in my Hauptschule)

3.) Leave out the ones that don't adapt to the status quo that the class has just established themselves, and I absolutely mean this. The students (I can hardly even use the word "student" here) are seeing this, and  they are absolutely using this for their grades sake, and fun advantage like a bunch of sociopaths.

4.) Pretend you are teaching, and not a repetitive robot.

5.) Get out of the class

6.) Get out of there, before you even start thinking about what you've just been doing wrong, or always been doing wrong.

 

So, I've met once someone who is going to the HTL "higher school". He has chosen more of a software/programming branch. He was about finished with his second year from his 3 years, as I recall. I talked to him, and he said about touching hardware: "Yeah, we had some kind of workbench thing hardwarewise, but that's gone", and then the biggest bummer arises when I start talking about linux, and then ask him about his experiences: "We have had once a teacher who showed us a little bit of linux, but it's hard" I ask him why is it hard? He says it's hard to work on, it's different. (at least he meaned that) I asked him how they teached that? And he was saying exactly what I did not want to hear. Saying: Yeah, they looked at Ubuntu for a short while, because it's supposed to be "easier". (It's harder for my own to use Ubuntu, what is he talking about?) Ubuntu is the wrong distro, to show >students< linux. And he got that opinion because of his class (he was only talking about the experiences from his class, and how it developed in his mind), which lets me assume, the teacher was a sided windows user. I felt so bad for him. He seemed ambitious. I at least gave him some names before we were forced to part ways: Debian, Fedora, gnome 2/3, XFCE.

I have a female cousin. She went to another higher school: The Borg, with the computing branch. She has once said: For my finals (with that I guess she meant some kind of work, that she was putting together) she was researching "linux", (not really in my opinion) she said she did not like linux. I stopped her, and finished off with: "I guess you've been mainly looking at Ubuntu" She said: "Yes, that it was" and I say: "You have not really met linux". When I asked her how much linux she has actually ever been teached in her 4 years, she said: "4 hours, and that only because it has to do with programming". I will never trust the Austrian schooling system again. They are even worsening it right now. The minister of school/culture and what ever other categories they have assigned to her, which she is screwing up, even wants to let students pass by with the grades of a five/F, instead of really changing something. It's acting like changing something, and making decision for their own benefit. (more money, with less students sitting around)

When I think about this, now I clearly see, there was one teacher in my school hell (and actually another one, who gets hate by half of the students, but he is actually really teaching), he was teaching in University to, compared to most of the others, he broke all the unspoken rules. He was breaking every one of these rules. And he was going through with a metaphorical steel hammer, to get that mess right, that mess that is not changeable with one person, but he alone made a little difference in that one school hour, at least. I actually learned better. He went away. Only teaching now in University. I guess the results just where not good enough for him. I remember him saying that this class is the worst class he had in 15 years, but also summed up this once in class: "You are living in the protected area school (*indicating with his hands a housetop). Nobody knows what is going on here. No politics, no parents know what is going on here. The only ones that know what is going on here is the industry!"  

Perhaps a University (and I will judge even the university very carefully), yes, that proposal of yours, with the evolving, and learning, with the university, is perhaps the best. I have not been thinking like this. I can now work hard on myself. This is a way. I thank you very much again for throwing your effort in here. The "change of scenery" and "learn computing" part was also great. Yeah, I will dig on. Lets see.

I will come back later again and comment. Thanks so far and so far.

My recommendation for a university: RWTH Aachen. It's definitely a top 3 Technische Hochshule in the DACH Zone, and it's in the Euregio, which is a center of high tech (aeronautics, aerospace, high tech industry for everything from glass to marmalade). There's a lot of students there, the number of students has been exploding lately with the need for next gen technology. There is a lot of skill there, much opportunity to learn in an international environment. And Aachen is a small city, it was the first capital of the Western World after the demise of the Western Roman Empire, but it's only a couple of km in diameter, and really cozy (even though it's the city with the most rain in Western Europe and because of the lack of hours of sunshine, a center of gravitation for the entire goth subculture...), and the cost of living is not that high because as soon as you leave Aachen, you're basically in the countryside. It's close to the European Supercomputing Center at Jülich, where for several years now, the only real human brain emulation has been running on a dedicated supercomputer (often copied, never duplicated), and where also years ago, the first operational thorium reactor was built (and it's still there pending further development). It's right next door to Maastricht (NL), where Google's 3D hamburger printing is going on, and right next door to Belgium, where the capital of the EU is.

With how the grade system is now, you could live cheaply, study, and if you need to, get a job easily to support your studies. You'll make more money in a part-time job as a uni student, then you would as an Azubi (Aus Zu Bildene) or "auf 400 EUR Basis". I know at least two colleagues in the IT sector that are right now looking to part-time employ university students as linux sysadmins, mainly Fedora and OpenSuSE. Those are 800-900 EUR jobs krankenversichert, for very little hours of work and for basically getting paid to do stuff you do as a hobby. Because in the EU, you pay taxes and are health insured where you work, not where you have your registered address, you would probably not pay any income taxes at all in Germany and be exempt in Austria, and it would suffice to finance a normal lifestyle as a student.

With the boom of students, now at about 3 times the normal capacity, there is a shortage of regular student rooms in Aachen, but there are easy alternative, as you could live on the outskirts of Aachen in the countryside or the suburbs with a family, or you could apply for a subsidized student room in Aachen, which could be a living container, as there are several huge stacks of living containers in Aachen City to house students, or could be in a student home, of which there are also plenty in Aachen. The RWTH Campus is really big and spread out across Aachen, so you'll have to first research where your classes are, and then look for a student room near the campus where you're going to spend most of your time.

Open source is the future, not just in software, but as a method of human intellectual evolution and survival. In order to make sure you find a spot in society, you'll have to have knowledge to share, it's as simple as that. It's important to invest primarily in yourself, not in products sold by others. In Continental Europe and Asia, unlike in Anglo-American countries or the Netherlands, higher education is pretty easy to come by, without taking on loans or otherwise jeopardizing your future. Just make it happen, there is always a way, find it, invest in yourself, not in some corporation. And once you're studying, gradually your path in life will become clear for you, and you'll know where to go and what to do, because you'll have more options with a diploma, and you'll see a larger picture.

Also, watch the LinuxCon Europe Düsseldorf content this week (together with the Linux Plumbers Conference). It's sold out, but main events are streamed and put on YouTube. It's the single largest linux conference in the world.

I completely erased the idea of making an apprenticeship now. It's simply put really just a snapshot (how couldn't I think of it like that?), and years in a company that I may not know if I like. Studying seems better. If I pursue Achen (a plus is that I love rain, and like the sun only on occasions), I will have to check out what courses they have. Right now I am fragmented. I will have to establish a new state (a finished release for testing, and then a stable release [this is maybe a really bad metaphor]). And then this seems very tempting. I will keep up, or ramp up the speed I am changing now. Some holes to fill in from creative decay and so forth. One of the reasons I started with all this, was I guess also because it was some kind of enormous therapy, and perusal of systematic, and also absolute things. I watched only the LinuxCon of the 15th, and it was great. I liked it. I hope they post the videos to YouTube, like I found it with their 2013 just now, the titles were very interesting. For the plumbers conference there seemed to be no live streams on linuxcon europe, and not with some googleing, so I guess I will have to wait until it is on YouTube. The first presenter was kind of hilarious today. I will perhaps look at Qube OS for fun. A VM special security distro. For many operatingsystems. Though I think I will throw myself more into the essential basics now. But this will not go out of my head for some time for sure. I just noticed there is a north america LinuxCon to, perhaps also worth watching.

When I started to write this post, I was thinking of going a way that would be a way of compromise. It seemed necessary. But with this, it's possible. I will try to find some nut job here. It's pretty hard with a simple school diploma. But never mind. I will find something stable. I've notice, I have to get out more to. XDroidie was kind of remembering that for me. (though I think he did not mention any of it, other than the suggestions that I am quite introverted).

 

Stable release, concentrate on the stable release!.... (what I am kind of thinking right now).

Thanks a bunch for these insights. Yeah. I think the strategy is I do, even though perhaps I already can: A qualification as simple technician (fixing stuff), fixing is fun to, and a good way of income perhaps. And of course finally the Linux certifications. And damn! I want to look into programming now. Ah... step by step, I will first look into linux in a general sense with a good book/guide for the command line from scratch etc.. I think I will start out with C, I looked at it a bit some time ago, and it was quite awesome. I was truly afraid, that if I do just a certificate (of course with more knowledge, then simply only the certificate, but officially just with that), I will not be able to at least do something part-time with that, while I go on with the rest of the plans I am making. Studying seems very good right now, in the future. Not the far future of course!

 

Edit: I was also searching for someone on experiences with certificates, and what they could bring. This makes me think of it more securely.

A simple technician for just repairing is not a massive source of income unless you own your own business, but if your young, its a nice source of income and rep building.

If you wish to make a true career outside of owning a business, you need a discipline or a trade if you will, something big businesses are after, and a sub set following. Example as follows.

You want to work with web servers, you know how to build them using Linux, but in the real world this is not enough, you would need LPIC Level 1 + 2, to both prove that you first understand Linux, then understand how to build the systems with Linux, then LAMP is a big thing, so for LAMP, if it was me I would have PHP, SQL, Scripting and HTML as my programming sub set, I would then follow up with Apache knowledge, to say LAMP is Linux - Apache - MySQL - PHP, this would make you rounded in web servers, you have a good grasp of the technologies they use.

That was an example. for my desired job its this.

Good understanding of Programming languages (Python for scripting, PHP, Ruby for Metasploit, Perl, C for Linux, C++ and Web), Good understanding of Operating systems (MS, OSX, Linux and mobile), I also need logical thinking, good maths, and a masters degree in digital forensics as I plan to work for the police or in a network environment.

Also you must enjoy what you do, seriously, if you enjoy your job, it becomes a paid hobby, with this your performance is higher and your more likely to stay focused and up to date, as I.T is a rapidly moving field, you need to move with it at a faster rate.

I personally love working with computers, and the fact I can gain the knowledge to protect people and my family on the internet only boosts the interest, also I love breaking things and seeing how they work (I hopefully will open some malware up at some point!) 

Just do it this way, think of the job you want, maybe sysadmin, then look at the qualifications and skills, then build, but never stop learning, never stop re-certifying and never get bored, you will have burn out days, but just recharge and get on it!

 

Yes. I was thinking of the technician degree thing like that. Sticking advertisment sheets at walls and so forth, letting them into my >professionally< made half home, half computer land. And getting a reputation, and another side income, while finding a job. Or accidentally get into selling stuff at an electronic store. I always know what the person actually wants, and what recommendations I can give, even informing them about things the person I am selling it to will not have thought of. (sometimes giving a hint, he should get the other better thing price/performance/situation wise) For what I would like to learn.

 

Edit: I mean, while having a job.

Edit: And Zoltan is absolutely right. I am not allowed to sell out.

Edit: I think I should not have said "nut" job here. The jobs are needed.

Been reading this, listen to SeekingSight.  Also I'll recommend, picking up a Linux+/LPIC-1 book, it will show you what you need to know in the way of Linux for professional environments, more so than in the Linux Bible, but still start with LB first.

Also watch the video I post below this. Wendell gives some good advice about "communing" with the technology you're learning, I've been following for a couple of months and it really has helped.  It makes you realize that it won't be overnight.  Plus the video has some career advice for the tech world.

Inbox.exe 0044: The Tech Job Market - More Advice From Wendell