Discussing the merits of the Arch Wiki

I see where you come from.

I think you’re misunderstanding my sentiment. It’s more of “if you think you can improve it, try”

Don’t be scared away by the potential of failure. That sort of attitude leads us right back to the top of this thread.

I’ll give you 5 beans if you tear apart the Gentoo Handbook in the same manner

First time installing arch on my server for me was an amazing learning experience where I learnt a lot about how linux is set up and configured behind the pretty pretty GUI smacked on top of most pure desktop distros.

However, even the beginners guide which I used back then, and has now been removed and redirects you to the installation guide (have a look for yourself, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=Beginners'_guide&redirect=no ) kept pointing me to separate wiki pages for broad subjects. Instead of saying we recommend GRUB for your first installation, they sent me to a wiki page outlining all the technical aspects of a boot loader. As I said, I learnt a lot, and I would have read up on all that anyways, but it turned what should have been a 1 hour first time setup to just learn the basics into a 6 hour struggle to figure out what exactly to do next, or figure out what exactly I did wrong.

Love arch for the the things that it does best, but only run it on one system at a time, to much of a hassle to maintain, and has broken on me too many times for comfort.

My opinion on the arch wiki is as many above have said, a good resource for information, but not very well suited for the people who need it the most (the people who don’t have a good grasp on it to begin with). Also the fact that the Beginners Guide page redirects to the Installation guide kinda warrants a more step by step approach to it. I was by no means a complete linux beginner when I installed arch for the first time, and I found the installation guide problematic at times.

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That is again a good attitude and although I keep replying to you, I don’t mean to be singling you out.

What I was trying to address though, since we’re specifically talking about the Arch Wiki and the Arch way of doing things, is that sadly when it comes to improving this specific wiki, we are limited by more than just the willingness to help other users. Specifically, by the willingness of the Arch community to help other users.

As I mentioned in another Arch related thread very recently, it took me a while to come to the basic conclusion that some distros are just not designed for me, whether it be because of the installer, the type and variation of the De’s offered, the amount of stability offered, ease of use, or in the case of Arch, the community I would be joining.

When we’re talking about improving the wiki beyond just correcting errors, to more QOL and things that would make it easier for newer people et all, we have to simply ask “does the Arch community particularly care about attracting new users and/or being easy to use?” and I think the evidence suggests that doesn’t really bother them. Which is perfectly valid as they would have to do the legwork and all, but what it means for me is quite simply recognising they don’t seem to be bothered if I use their distro or not, so I don’t.

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I don’t think it can be improved.

I think individual pages can be improved, but I think people have to be realistic about its limitations. They could have a core documentation writing team and write a set of core documents supplemented by community ‘guides’ but they don’t. I don’t think the wiki can ever be more than a loose collection of notes and guides written by non technical writers for the most part.

Without direction from Arch there’s only so much that can be done, and it’s current state (minus general improvements to wording and updates) is probably as far as their wiki can ever go.

It’s just not part of their goals.

Its a step above random forum tech support, and its easier to find. If it helps you find what you need the first time, its served its purpose.

Going to link this thread on the arch IRC - maybe also mailing list :slight_smile:

EDIT: Fwiw It may be worth gathering all this information and creating a arch Wiki page of it that I can point to and say - “Look, this stuff is broken” How can we fix it?

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And then there were none

That’s fair, cat person. I thought about creating a Reddit post, to be honest. I wasn’t going to link the forum, though.

Problem is that most of the core arch community that is actually responsible for doing things - doesn’t reddit and don’t really notice too many things outside the community.

It’s best addressing them directly and I have a few community & dev contacts.

EDIT1: In particular suggesting Edits & Changes on the discussion pages
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Talk:Installation_guide

EDIT2: I will go through these forum threads and gather the suggestions into the Wiki Talk page hopefully at some point in the coming days - you’ve probably all noticed that I’ve been a bit absent on the forums lately :smiley:

EDIT3: Will end up making a stand alone page at first that explains the reasoning behind the Install Guide steps - not a hand holding guide - but a document that’s general, concise and short

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