I’m interested in the Asus GL702ZC notebook with the desktop Ryzen 7 1700 CPU and an RX 580. It’s available at ~2k$ CAD. What would you suggest as a desktop alternative?
Ideally what I want is a powerful workstation that will last a long time which is also silent at idle (and no coil whine).
Use case:
general use
on 24/7 in a bedroom
machine learning / data science
docker / containers
occasional VMs and learning more about virtualization
running linux, and probably dual booting Windows unless virtualization has gotten good enough to avoid this
no gaming
I already have:
2TB SSD, no need for other storage
32GB RAM (2 X 16GB DDR4 2666MHz sodimms)
Pros of GL702ZC:
compactness
easy transportability in rare case of need
battery to act as built-in UPS
Cons of GL702ZC:
not silent at idle, although apparently pretty quiet. At load it is extremely loud by all accounts, at least if both CPU and GPU are loaded.
added cost of containing hardware I don’t want/need: 1TB HDD, 256GB SSD, 16GB RAM. Must be kept for warranty purposes.
Reasons for considering desktop:
potentially lower cost?
possibility to achieve silence at idle?
modularity, particularly wrt video card. Not currently focused on neural networks / deep learning, so the GPU is not essential now, but will want to dabble inevitably.
I’m interested in the Ryzen 7 1700 because of the 8 cores and 16 threads at only 65W TDP.
Is it possible to have a better or lower cost desktop than the GL702ZC given my goals, or it is simpler just to get that desktop replacement? Thanks in advance!
I know. I wish. Ryzen2 was on my mind, either for better performance and power efficiency, or better pricing on Ryzen1. But I really need a computer since my previous one died.
Then build something on a good board now (I like the Asus Prime X370 Pro … a lot), use a cheap 2200G for now, use the time until second gen to find a GPU that doesn’t cost multiple organs and then flip the APU when you build up the full rig? I don’t know how urgent the “high-performance-ness” is.
Anyway, a laptop will be louder and under 24/7 uptime and heavy load over long periods, it will die a lot sooner than a properly built desktop system.
Laptops really aren’t meant for sustained load. Some of them can technically handle it, but the VRM really doesn’t get proper cooling, so I wouldn’t expect them to last under stress.
A desktop is really the only way to go when it comes to proper airflow.
Given the "occasional VM’s’ and no gaming, I would get a used thin/lite laptop running WIndows 10 , like a Zenbook with a 128GB SSD and Core-M processor (no fans). They are fine for browsing and light office use and you could host a small linux VM under VBox if you want to.
Use this for a month or two and keep it for occasional portable use and remoting in to your server.
Then, when Ryzen2 is out and reviewed, build a “server” using your existing parts. Depending on what your VM’s are doing you don’t really need that much CPU to run VM’s for learning etc - they are usually idling unless you’ve got some specific workloads in mind.
That could work. If I let go of my wish for 8 cores (so hard to do…), I could probably even keep that setup for a long time, with the comfort of knowing I can just add a GPU if justified for ML later.
But why pay as much for the motherboard as for the CPU? And aren’t new chipsets about to be released with Ryzen2?
The main advantage of the APU is not needing to buy a GPU at crazy prices. Otherwise the R7 1700 pricing seems not bad at $310 CAD right now.
The issue is that I almost never have sustained loads. I did worry a bit when I trained ML models for 12-24 hours at a time on my previous laptop, but it survived. And I even keep the lid closed.
Because the CPU is usually idling, I value silence at idle and light loads (browsing etc), and mind less if it gets louder under load.
This was exactly my plan. I got a Ryzen Mobile laptop (HP x360), but I’ve been sorely disappointed with the quality control and plan to return it… for the 2nd time. It’s sad because I really like most of the specs on paper, silence at idle, and the Ryzen Mobile APU.
I’ve been going in circles. …HP x360 is nice as a reasonably portable option to complement an eventual server/workstation but I worry about longevity due to quality control. So instead I could get the GL702ZC DTR as the workhorse for its 8 core CPU. Or, build a desktop… but should wait for Ryzen 2, new chipset. Plus GPUs and RAM are expensive. So, maybe a thin and light such as…
The new chipsets won’t do anything fancy, I am pretty sure of that. Maybe a newer boost method or some shit like that… The reason to go with a higher priced X370 board is simply that you actually get more quality out of it. You also get a little more chipset features but the differences are negligible. Mostly you get a good VRM design, solid build and a lot of control over the UEFI.
Note that I am not talking about the “unicorn-puke everywhere, stupid expansive, megaultragaming”-boards but about the reasonable choice of around 150,- bucks for a part in your system that literally connects everything.
I am writing this from one of those. It is fine for writing, playing 2D games, watching youtube and so on. It is not enough for the workloads you have suggested. Please trust me on that.
That is appealing for the weight and form factor. But I find it hard to justify anything with less than a 4 core / 8 thread right now, prefer the more balanced performance of the Ryzen Mobile APUs for longevity, and want to avoid Intel right now until Meltdown & Spectre are sorted out. Doesn’t leave too many options, which either makes the decision easier or impossible…
Coming back to this, what is the main draw of the second gen?
The “high-performance-ness” isn’t urgent, especially on the GPU side. As long as I have the option to add 1-2 powerful GPUs in the future as needed, that’ll put my mind at ease. In the meantime, I’m debating between the R7 1700 with a cheap/used, maybe fanless, GPU just to drive a monitor, or the 2200G APU.
The Asus Prime X370 Pro does seem like a good value for what it is. I don’t know if I’ll make use of it since I’m not thinking of overclocking right now. It does seem to lack NVMe on the M.2 slot though, no?
The board isn’t optimized specifically for overclocking, it is a solid general purpose board. The M.2 is of course NVME. If you are thinking of up to two GPUs the Prime X370 Pro is a nice fit since it would still allow you to slot in another full size card. I haven’t checked lately but not that long ago the number of boards with three full size slots was fairly limited.
I can’t tell you how the second gen will turn out. But the main points I would expect are better RAM support, higher frequencies and better efficiency. For you that would mean possibly lower cost for RAM and more performance at the same noise level.
Between the 1700 and the APU … Look, the APU will hold it’s value. The 1700 will be “the old model” in a few weeks and cheap GPUs simply don’t exist right now. Honestly, try to find a GPU that performs significantly better that the 2200G for less money … and then you still need a CPU.
It’s clear that the APU is unbeatable in value. But unless the 2nd gen Ryzen replacement for the 1700 has an integrated Vega, I’ll be in the same situation in a few months, no? I don’t anticipate GPUs becoming reasonably priced in that timeframe. RIght now I’d look at anything I could find in the used market that would at least work for Youtube, eg. a GTX 570 for $60 CAD.
How do you feel about second hand PSUs? For example I found a 2-3 months old Corsair RM750x for $120 CAD. It’s cheaper than a new RM650x at $135+tax, but Corsair’s warranty is non-transferable.
For RAM, it would be really nice if I could use the 32GB of DDR4 SODIMMs I have, using SODIMM to DIMM adapters. Considering the RAM trickiness with Ryzen, and possibly cooler clearance issues, still worth a try? Replacing that with DIMMs would cost more than the CPU… insane.
For the case, the Fractal Design R5 or S seem generally recommended for silence. Any other suggestions? I’d prefer a bit smaller as long as the eventual cooler and video card can fit.
@sceps I don’t presume to know you, but based on this interaction, it seems that you need to adjust your expectations. Everyone is on a budget, and some are larger than others.
My advice is this: go with a 2400g, grab 16gb of full size DDR4, get a reasonably sized, new, power supply and grab a cheap case. If you don’t have the budget for the more expensive hardware, cutting corners to get the performance is only going to find you asking the same questions in a new thread a year down the line, because something failed.
Ok, I’ll go for peace of mind with a new PSU and stick to the QVL for RAM.
The linux support for 2200G/2400G seems spotty with better support expected in kernel 4.17… which is apparently due in June or July. This makes me lean towards the 1700 again, which is the main draw of the build to begin with. Who knows how long one has to wait for 2700 or 400-series support.
If old GPUs are that ill-advised, I guess I’d hold my nose and just get a passive GT 1030 and call it a day.
That is a very fair point and one that I made just recently myself when buying a 1200 instead of an APU for my HTPC. Then I would absolutely go for the 1700 right away.
Wow there is some dumb shit written down. xD
Fan control is very good on the Prime X370 Pro. Three or four profiles plus custom curve for four headers individually plus second CPU header and a full tilt pump header. (I think that is right but haven’t looked at it lately) All controlled inside the UEFI.
For the least amount of trouble buy Samsung B-Die memory. I found the 16GB G.Skill TridentZ 3200 CL14 kits to be flawless, that stuff simply works. 32GB would be a ton of money, go for 16 right now. You can buy more quantity later, you can’t make it better after the fact.
The least overpriced AMD graphics cards are the low end ones. But I just took a look at those newegg listings and … holy shit, dark times to buy GPUs in your country, even worse than here in Germany. I would recommend to look for used Fiji (R9 Fury/Fury X) or new Polaris (RX400/500 series) based cards. The open source AMDGPU driver works brilliantly with those.
Everything I am advising here is from experience. I am running three Asus Prime X370 Pro boards and had no issues so far. One of those boards I have since the Ryzen launch, the other two were open box deals for around 100,- Euro. I am running a Ryzen7 1700 @3.8GHz on fixed 1.35V, a Ryzen5 1600X stock and the third system is prepped for a 2700X. One thing I always do is disable c-states, had too much trouble with that crap in the past.
I am running manjaro linux and that board works perfectly for my needs.
So, there you have at least one positive review.
But I get how those ratings look.
