Debugging performance issues with (win10) File Explorer (and other things)

Operating Systems & Open Source Windows
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This is a problem I’ve had for years. It’s a problem that will require some voodoo black magic to diagnose, much less solve. I had given up hope on ever getting to the bottom of this. But maybe L1techs might have expertise deep enough to stand a chance.

The symptoms go thus:

Painting of file explorer UI is painfully slow. Copying/pasting file has an unnatural delay. Sometimes file explorer will not refresh correctly, requiring a manual refresh to show the most recent files in a directory. Other programs are sometimes also really slow to paint - I could be talking about the process of “desktop composition”, but I’m not sure. It is an issue that has survived clean windows reinstalls.
When downloading a file from the internet, the browser freezes for a few seconds when download finishes.
Rarely there are stutters where the entire PC hangs for a second or two. Oddly enough only when muted. I frequently have videos playing and I don’t remember any hiccups while audio is playing. I have not had that happen while in a game either. But I have seen it happen with playing videos, but the system is muted.

It gradually gets worse the longer the computer stays on.

There is a workaround - pegging my processor to at least 25% (an 8 core/16 thread 9900K) seems to restore system responsiveness (I usually run BOINC constantly just to have a responsive system).

As far as debugging deeply weird issues like this, I am aware of the Windows Performance Toolkit and I’m ready to make a trace. But I have no idea how to use that trace to diagnose anything.

This has been a problem since I got this computer (although at this point it’s a bit of Theseus’ computer with the amount of parts that have changed, the only hardware that can be a culprit is CPU/mobo/ram - I got that 5 years ago).

Help

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Thread summary:

  • First idea is temperature problems. I will take up anyone on a 1000$ bet it’s not a cooling issue.
  • Ran memtest. No errors.
  • It’s not related to swap file or windows write caching.
  • It’s probably not related to windows defender.
  • There’s nothing that sticks out in event viewer.
  • Not related to XMP profiles.
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I’d start by using hwinfo to make sure clock speeds and temperatures are good while under a sustained load and that there’s no throttling.

If the issue survives a clean windows install that makes hardware / bios suspect and being a K series CPU I assume/hope it’s running overclocked. Resetting BIOS to defaults is probably the first remedy I’d attempt after ensuring that temps were good.

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Actually no, it’s not overclocked. No throttling. Might have noticed in the last 5 years. But I do think it might be a hardware issue.

And like I said pegging the CPU makes it run BETTER, not worse.

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You also said “It gradually gets worse the longer the computer stays on.” but either way no tests, no progress toward a solution and excess heat is currently a prime suspect.

What are the temperatures of the CPU and chipset/PCH after 10 minutes fully loaded?

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Ah, I see the confusion, my bad.

The base state does get significantly worse, but the workaround fixes it. I think even with the workaround it gets slightly worse, but at that point it’s a subjective judgement (it kinda feels a bit worse).

Temps:
Currently the system has been on for 6 hours. The CPU (cores and package) run around 70-75 degrees under my “workaround” load. It is currently around 25-28 degrees in the room (I don’t have AC :frowning: ).

Under 75% load CPU is holding ~90 degrees (no max >101 tho) in the last 10 min, but without throttling (BOINC project not sending more work yet :smiley: ).

I have run γ-cruncher stress tests in the past that did not throttle.

PCH holding at 60 °C.

Also, what logic exactly does it make to look for a temps explanation, if making it higher temp fixes the problem?

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It’s just troubleshooting… We have to rule out the basics first. If it was a lawn mower I’d be asking you if it had gas in it. lol

Although you’ve noticed the problem subsides under load I’d be surprised to find more heat was what was resolving the issue. I’d suspect the load may be keeping power saving mechanisms from engaging or keeping a disk spun up etc. Could be any number of things going on during idle.

If you’re confident the CPU and chipset are adequately cooled then move on to doing a bios reset. Save your current settings and reset to factory defaults and then see if there’s any change.

Because this is likely hardware related the next thing is to strip the system down to as few components as you can. Unplug everything. The closer to barebones the better.

If the problem persists then we can move on to trying to figure out why a particular program is suffering these “unnatural delays”. Is using explorer the most reliable way to reproduce the issue? Ideally we want a quick and reliable way to provoke an unnatural delay.

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Ok, let’s go one by one. I never considered heat to be the fix, but the load.

I have considered power saving mechanisms in the past. I tried adjust all power plan knobs windows exposes to no effect.

It is highly unlikely to be a drive thing. I have 2 SSDs (1 nvme, 1 sata) and 4 spinning rusts of various ages. OS is always on the nvme. I’ve changed OS drive once before. Spinners are set to go idle in 20 min, but that behavior does not match the problem - explorer just hangs for a couple seconds as the drive spins up.

BIOS and hardware: That will be tricky. Since it will require making the change, then running the system at least 4-5 hours to get an unambiguously bad state. BIOS changes might merely be tedious, but hardware changes might be unfeasible, like I obviously can’t disconnect the OS drive, or my backup drive for that matter. This is my daily driver. Also, hardware access to the PC is just… inconvenient. I have a huge plant next to the side of the desk in the corner where the PC is. Maybe I could try something over the weekend… I was hoping someone had ideas on the software side.

Now when I say I suspect hardware problems, I don’t mean a faulty component. I mean some unfortunate design flaw of the platform or component interaction. Like mixing the wrong medicines together.

I run linux occasionally and I haven’t noticed any problems there. It seems to be a strictly Windows problem, so either whatever windows/explorer does exposes it, or it could be strictly software.

I actually have a video for you:

From the moment I double click the image, and the spinny wheel appears on the mouse, to the moment you see the dimension of the image appear in the status bar, the system is unresponsive (that’s like 3-4 seconds of uninteractive). Notice also how the rows in process explorer update.
If I have a media playing during that time, playback won’t hang (video or audio), but the image viewer and explorer are non-interactive.

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Smells like something expands and makes better contact when it heats up.
I’d check Windows event viewer for errors, snoop around and find anything related for retries, resets, retransmit and similar.

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First thing this makes me think of is LGA mounting pressure, though board or case deflection also seem like candidates. If a cold pin’s got poor contact there should bus retries in the event log. @martixy, when was the last time the torque on the cooler and socket screws checked? Or the case’s motherboard standoffs, cooler standoffs, and the backplate verified snug and planar? Something getting in the socket, on the 9900K, or between the backplate and motherboard could also introduce warping.

All of that might go nowhere but assembly issues tend to produce intermittent faults. So checking to rule them in or out doesn’t seem like a bad idea.

Another weird cause of contact problems would be the cooler’s coldplate curvature being way off.

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Maybe RAM is dying? Do memtest86?

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Good info. The video was especially interesting. I was picturing more individual pauses than the consistently slow repainting shown.

I’m wondering if the ~70MB memory allocation to view that image was significant… I’d try disabling the windows swap file. It’s not a long term solution but it’s easy and in the short term it would rule out swap activity as the cause. Years ago I had an old laptop that was short on memory and had just one mechanical drive. It would put the system into a similar slow motion state like shown in the video when the swap file was active. Unnecessary paging is something windows still loves to do while idle, especially right after an allocation and it may also explain why your background load helps.

If you find disabling the swap file helps then we can narrow focus to the system drive.

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Can you please share make and model?

Check the following discussion Ssd data retention

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Task manager pictures

Unplug from power cord and press power button a few times, leave off for about 5 minutes then turn back on

Are any services disabled or anything running in the background…check with autoruns64 send pics

Trimming the drive through windows trim?

Weird driver issues when updated?

When it started did you try a system restore?

Lots to go through

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I have to say, this has been going on ever since I got this system. I think around 2019?

Since I brought up component interactions, I will give more details: The system has 64GB of RAM @ 3000 MT/s (all 4 slots populated). The mobo is ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 6. I have swapped the video card once. There have been several drive changes.

@regulareel Do you think the RAM would have been dying for 5 years and still not died?
Anyway, I ran a memtest, since I was curious what it does and it reported no errors.

@vivante Event viewer has not revealed anything even remotely plausibly connected. Logs go back to around july last year, when I got a bigger nvme drive and reinstalled windows.

Smells like something expands and makes better contact when it heats up.

This does not seem plausible to me. The effect of engaging the CPU is immediate, even before fans spin up. Altho I am aware of hysteresis. It also does not seem to mesh with the idea of it getting worse as time goes on.

@lemma I am actually not sure. I have vague memories of cleaning/remounting the cooler a while back, but that might have been a different machine. I’m curious how you drew the connection between the problem description and mounting pressure. This is not an intermittent problem. It has been from day one the machine was on.

@tk11 Swap made no difference. Neither did write caching, which was another idea I had. Also, it kinda doesn’t make sense between the fast nvme and the great deal of ram. On that note, windows defender also doesn’t seem to be at fault.

@jode I assume you’re asking for curiosity - it’s a Kingston KC3000 and a Crucial MX500. They’re both new drives, from last year, before that I had others. The issue is not related to the drives. I have no idea what that thread is supposed to tell me about.

@Necrosaro All, already gone thru. Like do you really think there haven’t been power outages in the last 5 years? I said this already further down, but I’ll mention in the top post this is a forever problem.

Actually, to add more info - I remember I had corsair’s RGB software installed real early on and that made things even more horrible. That years ago, before I accidentally discovered the workaround.
I have not installed corsair’s dumb software since then. Thankfully some (clever) engineer set the default color scheme of my keyboard to red, which is perfect for dark environments.

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On this thought make sure XMP is enabled and if it is switch it to the other profile. I’ve seen windows get weird with certain XMP, EXPO, DOCP, etc profiles.

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Mobo only has 1 profile that runs at the memory’s advertised speed. The others are lower.

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Task manager and autoruns…we have not seen any pictures and might have missed something. Just trying to help out. I know you are frustrated. There hasn’t been a problem i could not fix yet and just trying to get through the branches(there are many levels to knowledge in computers and just seeing were things are at)

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Try running it lower. You can revert if you see no changes.

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Didn’t help, sadly.

I know you mean well and I apologize for being confrontational, but asking for task manager pictures makes me think you couldn’t possibly help me. I imagine you have seen what task manager looks like. Which tab do I give you a picture of? What can you glean from seeing a small piece of all running processes? Can you see how your vague request inspires little confidence.
As well as, please do not assume how I feel. Or if you must, at least pay attention. Do you think I could maintain the same level of frustration for 5 years? I would have either chucked the computer out the window or fixed it myself by now.

Autoruns is a reasonable request, but I sanitize all programs on my computer and anything that is there is a critical program.

The culprit may well lie there - I run 2 programs that hook into explorer - 7 taskbar tweaker and StartIsBack. However you might surmise removing them would be out of the question, even if they turn out to be at fault.

autoruns.zip (600.3 KB)

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If you don’t think I can possibly help you then continue through the others trying here in the forum. When someone already has there mind made up it’s not going to help yet you came to a forum “for” help is very contradicting.

I will be around from time to time and you can reply to this message again when your ready. Will be more then happy to help. If not the best of luck in solving the issue.

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