Ethereum*
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Define profitable.
Iâm making approximately 1.3 Eth per month which at current prices is about $260. I spend $100 per month on electricity.
This wonât last for a lot of reasons, but I think you are factually wrong with that statement.
Every model Iâve seen under a certain scale using non-commercial electricity rates relies on a price rise over the next months to be profitable. Relying on market volatility == non profitable because the benchmark isnât whether youâre making more than youâre spending on electricity, itâs whether or not youâre outperforming simply buying and holding the crypto over the same ROI period.
When the craze started there was around a 2x pump frome baseline, and peak avg. ROI was just before the massive correction. had you bought rig + electricity value in eth and dumped, youâd have made much, much more, and not had to try and sell off all that pesky mining junk.
What are you on about? itâs trading at ~$202 trending down.
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There is another problem, when the SEC decides all cryptocurrency mining are securities miners will have to get a security trading license just to be able to exchange their coins.
Not all. Just ERC20 tokens and anything with a crowdsale (ethereum, zcash, possibly dash, dozens of smaller shitcoins)
BTC, Monero, LTC are strictly exempt and pass the howie test.
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Well considering you have said it is trending downward, the obvious answer is âyes mining is more profitable than buying and holdingâ because all mining requires is that the coins produced sells for more than the electricity used. The assets producing the coins shouldnât be factored into that because they can be sold for a price on their own.
It seems your definition of âprofitableâ is âhitting ROIâ. Mine is âmaking money now for what I put into itâ.
If you want to be technical, Iâve made $0 because Iâm holding the currencies I mine to sell at a much later date. Though I am trading all Ethereum to Bitcoin because itâs obvious its price is temporary.
1.3 multiplied by 200 = 260
I mean⌠basic math here man.
You donât understand what that investigation announcement meant.
It was saying tokens for startup currencies based in cryptocurrencies is a security because you are trading value built into a company just like a stock share is.
So this only holds true if the basis of the currencies value is in a company that maintains it. An ICO is an Initial Coin Offering which is essentially cryptos version of an IPO which is an Initial Public Offering.
This investigation means that companies canât use cryptocurrencies to get investment funds without being regulated by the SEC. If the currencies arenât being used for that, they arenât a security.
Ethereum is used for ICOs a lot and thatâs why this announcement is bad for it because thatâs a lot of money being put into Ethereum for that purpose.
Currencies that arenât used for that arenât subject to the same regulations.
Yes, this.
Then you definitely arenât making money. Ethereum Foundation members are under SEC investigation. Shapeshift that shit into BTC if youâre going to hodl.
no, see the following paragraph. Considering youâre long holding, you could have just spent the electricity money on the crypto and have the exact same profit model without the capital expenditures.
No, it is the stock standard definition used by every serious miner in the business: outperforming raw speculative investment. I just said that.
Ignoring aggregate expenditures and capital is how people go out of business. If your goalposts are far, far away from everyone else, of course youâre going to come to different conclusions.
no need to be rude, the way you worded it could easily be interpreted as âeth is trading at 260â or â1.3 eth is worth 260â
Ethereum is arguably a security under the new ruling, and backchannels have foundation members falling off the map and investigators asking questions.
Look, Iâm not bashing you personally, and Iâm not saying mining reflects negatively on your character. What Iâm saying is that hobbyist mining on home electricity in the west isnât profitable.
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I am.
Weâre talking now. What has happened in the past is pointless. It is more profitable right now to be mining than to buy and hold. Nothing else matters because we canât do anything about what has happened.
Well then Iâm going to go so far as to say that is a dumb way to look at it for a single small miner. I can either mine for relatively consistent returns (mining ethereum VS electricity costs has been profitable since the popularity boom), or I can speculate and possibly lose or gain money. It seems reasonable that the more consistent investment is the one Iâd prefer.
If what you say is true, serious miners are dumb. Thatâs not what profitability is. Making more money than you spend is being profitable, and anything else is unintuitive and should be called something else, like being more efficient with your money or seeking highest ROI.
The issue with that for me is that I canât know how much my mining equipment would get me when I sell it. Right now doesnât count because Iâm not doing that. So I ignore both the cost and eventual resale value of the hardware and focus on making sure Iâm making good money on mining outside of that, resource for resource (electricity -> coins).
Theyâre flat costs which are not necessarily reoccurring, so theyâre relatively minor imo compared to eventual potential profit.
Yeah I fully expected to be done with Ethereum after the bitcoin split happens. Not sure what Iâd move to, but using pools that switch algorithms based on profitability percentages is a good baseline for figuring that out.
assuming it does, just buy btc on bixit now with your eth and dump the altcoin chain fork.Literally double your money.
See:
At the time of my posting this, the information was 100% accurate and still is.
based on what data? I provided mine. Also, you said you were hodling. That means âright nowâ doesnât apply to you. Furthermore, mining as a venture is necessarily over time.
Itâs actually the only metric, but if you want to use a different one, home mining isnât even profitable compared to renting cloud compute to mine. You can use flash pricing on cg cluster instances to intermittently mine far more effectively via the EC2 api, for example.
look, if you want to redefine profitable, thatâs fine. Just donât claim the standard definition is wrong. Iâm not telling you to stop mining.
You said in that same paragraph:
Thatâs incorrect using the actual definition of profitable.
Youâre ignoring the point Iâm making. You said:
Me saying âWeâre talking about right nowâ is saying âit doesnât matter what ROI was thenâ because it doesnât help anyone now to determine future profitability.
My whole thing is you saying itâs not profitable and hasnât been since the popularity spiked. Iâve been mining that whole time making more than Iâve spent on electricity, and that is to say I say you are wrong to make that statement.
I guess if you redefine profitability to mean higher ROI than just buying and holding, that might be true, but you yourself have said Ethereum is trending downward, which logically means buying and holding starting right now would lose you money. Mining and selling as you get it starting right now would just as likely make you money for a time (at current prices it is still 2:1 to electricity for me).
If your reference for where the best ROI should be calculated from is âwhen the craze startedâ or even âbefore it startedâ, I donât know why youâd do that but I think itâs a dumb way to have a conversation about investment.
???
âif you want to use a different oneâ
you immediately use your definition again
Youâre basically asking me to be rude here. Both give you more money than you put in. Both are profitable. One is more profitable than the other.
Use words correctly please with their actual definitions.
Profit is revenue minus costs. Itâs that simple.
Costs = electricity bill; revenue = USD from coin sales.
If Iâm making more money than Iâm spending, itâs profitable.
Youâre the one using the wrong definition of what it means to be profitable.
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Iâm not. Iâm using the industry standard metric for profitability. That means itâs the correct one as applies to crypto mining, full stop.
Also, a bit hypocritical considering you arenât factoring in your equipment overhead, variable difficulty, or TIME in your model.
Like I said, not telling you to stop mining. You do you, man.
I stopped for a week but started up again! Got .106btc for about $70CAN in electricity in 4 weeks. If this keeps up I should have enough to exchange for a Vega card for about $100 in electricity. Iâm down with that
If youâre using nicehash:
a) you arenât mining, youâre hashpower renting. Subtle difference.
b) you probably arenât mining ethereum exclusively, if at all, depending on you equipment.
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Most of it is ethereum, like 70%+, some is whatever cryptonight is from my r7 1700.
Plus, the title says cryptocurreny 
People still believe in eth for now so Iâm okay unless btc drops by about 2/3.
I have very little time and money invested in this so maybe Iâm not a hobbyist
Then Iâll again go so far as to say thatâs retarded and means nothing to a small miner.
equipment overhead
Hard to calculate for, and presuming itâs long term it becomes relatively insignificant so long as it is non-recurring, so not worth the effort.
If Iâm going to consider future potential profit based on current production, I must consider whatever my equipment overhead could give back when itâs sold. Doing one without the other doesnât make sense to me unless you ignore equipment overhead, and imo thatâs fine as long as itâs a single purchase and not recurring.
variable difficulty and time
If I just mined with the hardware I had during the month of June (from 1st to 30th), I would make more money than I spent, by about 2-3x essentially making $200-$300 for every $100 in electricity I spent. The same has been true for July and will probably be true for August though it depends on what Bitcoin does and how quickly the SEC investigation concludes and what comes of both.
I donât think it makes sense to say something isnât profitable if it makes less money than an alternative but still makes money because when normal people see that theyâre going to interpret it differently than you do, and imo thatâs spreading incorrect information.
Even if thatâs the industry standard definition, thatâs not the general definition and actually means something very different from it. It sounds like something made to create F.U.D. and doesnât seem like a good decision to me.
Avoiding industry specific technical terms is a good idea when talking to normies, unless you explain the difference beforehand.
youâre probably using amd cards, right?
Theyâre better at Hashimoto.
Again, nicehash isnât mining. Itâs taking advantage of arbitrage on a pool renting marketplace.
I mean I guess so? Iâm getting paid to mine today what other people are speculating about for tomorrow.
OK:
100$/mo in consumer electricity is about 1200 W.
If youâre mining 1.3 at the current difficulty thatâs about 140ish MH/s
that profile approximately fits five 1070âs or 5 8G 480/580âs plus a base system plus a high wattage PSU plus risers
so between ~$1600-2500 assuming you got in early and cheaped out on everything but the psu.
If youâve been mining and hodling since late march, (earliest interpretation of start of the craze) thatâs 4 payouts of 1.3 now valued at $260, or $1040 - $400 = $640
There is no universe where youâre profitable, yet, even if you donât use the non-industry definition, and even if you had free electricity. Thereâs even room for another month in the backend!
I did explain. I said profitability for crypto was measured against raw investment in my first post. You then took umbrage with my trying to explain this
Yes, everything I disagree with is FUD too. What a coincidence.
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Like I said, subtle difference.
Multimining is still mining, but if youâre selling hashpower on an externality marketplace to determine what to multimine, it becomes hashpower renting.
I wasnât disagreeing with you, but itâs good to know, right?
I feel like a winner.
New Rx Vega will fit nicely beside my r7