I was halfway through a post suggesting the thread not descend into circlejerkery, but then I realised what thread I was in.
Grab a member and start yanking my friend. Youâre in the Shitcoin Lounge now.
Yes, if you have a large amount years old pre-existing hash power, and live in a country that only charges ~$0.034/KWH for consumer electricity (Rick lives in Taiwan iirc, and they charge ~NT$2.8/KWH) the profit margins open up a little to small(er) miners.
Rickâs barely turning a profit with almost free electricity and roughly twice the hash power. He even says he has concerns about short term profitability, concluding he probably should have just bought Ethereum.
None of these circumstances apply to you.
Whatâs even funnier is that he could run a memory optimization strap and made way more on zcash
That is a misrepresentation of the video I watched.
He thinks itâs a misappropriation of resources because itâll take him longer to get 10 Ether, his goal, than he originally expected, and he bought his hardware for Boinc.
barely making profit
In what world is $400+ per month âbarely making profitâ?
⌠I mean, his listed he power costs in a table in the video.
His power costs twice as much as mine does ($0.1651 vs $0.08125).
Between the approximate $400 profit at current rates, and the fact heâs making it at twice the power cost, youâre right, his circumstances are not mine.
Part of my problem with some things you say isnât so much what you say, but how you say it. But here? Blatant misrepresentation of facts.
I actually looked into it, Youâre right about the power. it turns out Taiwan actually charges you more the more you use:
I assumed heâd just mistyped/miscalculated the figures, but at the time I wasnât aware that they had an escalating cost model. All the references Iâd checked beforehand just quoted NT$2-2.8
Turns out that number can really get run up with overages (not as high as 16 cents/KWH unless thereâs some sort of tax Iâm not privy to or his landlord gouges him, still not sure where heâs getting that number)
Since he can write off the considerable equipment costs heâs making money. yes. And I would still call 400 a month a thin profit margin, because it is given the risk profile and capital commited to it. Even large miners make thin margins.
I never disputed that people with paid off equipment could make money, I said getting in wasnât profitable because you wonât hit ROI while your rig is still competitive unless you can buy in at sufficient scale, which is true.
Yep, the increasing difficulty is reducing his margins, and he said it may have been more appropriate just to buy it. He even goes over the margin reductions (though it seems like he didnât fully understand the difficulty increase) and basically just hand waved them âbecause it probably wonât increase.â
i.e. concerns about his short term profitability
apart from the power thing, which was unintentional, Iâve not misrepresented anything.
Is it true that no real work is being done? All that power wasted on verifying bitcoin hashesâŚ
More appropriate to buy it since he intended his equipment to be used for Boinc.
The reason he used his equipment for mining is because he thought he could make more money than he did. He still made money. The notable profits he thought heâd be making justified using the equipment for something it wasnât intended for to him.
But thatâs irrelevant. Letâs assume he did what he said he probably should have. Bought the ethereum directly instead.
If he had done that when he started mining to begin with, he would be down $75 per Ethereum because it was over $320 when he started and it is now at $250. Or, if he bought the same amount of Ethereum in the same time period to simulate what heâs experienced mining, heâd be at a wash because about 1/2 was purchased above $250 and 1/2 was purchased below $250.
However, in mining, heâs trading $300 per month in electricity for 3.125 Eth (5 Eth in 48 days) per Month, effectively paying sub-$100 prices.
The disadvantage to that is ânot using the equipment for Boincâ.
He made the right choice, financially, to mine.
His interest in short term profits doesnât make as much sense since his whole thing was âget 10 Ethereum because weâd expect it to go up in price.â beyond paying for his Vega GPUs, which buying Ethereum wouldâve been a bad decision for anyway.
Itâs like me. I could be spending the $100 a month I do on electricity on buying Ethereum, or I could be using my GPUs to mine 1 Ethereum per month. Either I pay $100 for 0.4 Eth (about) or I pay $100 for 1 Eth.
⌠basic math says mining is the right answer for anyone who already has the hardware.
Thatâs not a fair comparison to make because if he was a sane human being he wouldâve valued the ethereum mined by its value at the time it was mined.
Any change in value after having mined or bought the ethereum is entirely detached.
The timing of the coming into ownership is of significant relevance, as the value of every other cryptocurrency and how that changes over the time youâre in ownership of the coin will determine the USD you get out of it in the end.
Regardless of whether he bought or mined the ethereum, he lost value.
He only made profits because he didnât account for his hardware as a cost.
I seriously doubt youâre on about him straight up buying 10 eth at once because thatâd be a lot of money to throw at a cryptocurrency on a whim.
Correction:
Either I pay $100 for 0.4 Eth (about) or I pay $2000 for a mining rig then spend the rest of eternity waiting for my rig to mine enough Eth to cover the cumulative cost of my electricity bill and my miner.
Imaginary money until he sells the Ethereum. The Ethereum is worth what you pay to get it. So his electrical costs should be what is used because itâs his actual cost to obtain the asset. If he isnât selling it as he gets it, itâs value to others is effectively imaginary.
If you must bring it to that, all calculations for whether something is profitable or not is arbitrary tripe.
If youâd continued reading, I mention that. Using his chart showing each deposit of 1 Eth, it averages out to a wash where he paid above and below current market price about the same.
This was written assuming we assess his value right now. Imaginary lost value VS actual lost value is different in that he actually paid $300 per month in electricity and effectively lost what Ethereum has dropped in that same time frame assuming he sold it when he got it.
But when you say âhe lost the value the Ethereum he had droppedâ, youâre saying âhe lost this much money assuming he sold the Ethereum when he obtained it.â
That doesnât make any sense for someone whoâs intention is to hold it long term and sell it later, as he stated he intended to because he believes, or hopes, it will rise in price beyond what it currently is or was when he obtained it.
Because he already owned it. Itâs doesnât make sense to count it as a cost when you buy it for something else before even considering mining.
No, I actually was considering that alongside the two alternatives: Mining and buying Eth slowly in the same way heâd receive it mining.
The point was to see which of the 3 possibilities would get him more in the end, and the answer was mining using what historical data we have and assuming he sold it now.
Seems to be an ignorant correction because he already owned his rig for a different purpose.
For people who already own their systems, do you think the better choice is to sell that system and use the money to buy Ethereum? Because if youâre considering the cost of the hardware they already own, then saying mining isnât worth it, thatâs the only option.
Now they donât have an asset if they sell said computer, which they could have used for whatever they originally intended it for.
On a personal basis, that is more costly. On a monetary basis, that is more costly because you almost certainly wonât get the same money back you paid for the system, and you wonât have the system either.
In every way I can find, if you already own the system, mining is the better choice for the short term, both in obtaining Ethereum at cheaper prices and giving you the utility of the machine aside from mining (depending on what youâre needs are for it). I use my computer while itâs mining all the time for web browsing, watching videos, simpler games, and the like.
Not only that, you are turning something that was once just a cost into something that generates income by keeping the hardware and mining.
Rick had two choices. Mine or Boinc. Mining basically gave him about $1200 at the cost of about $450. He already bought the hardware. He was already gonna use it for something that didnât make him money. He profited whatever he profits once he sells and imo saying he wasnât profitable is tantamount to lying if you want to say you have to consider the current value as what he has now for Ethereum.
I find the whole âyou must count your hardware cost to consider if you are profitableâ concept inane, especially when you arenât counting the other side of selling it later, and entirely if the person already owns the hardware.
Itâs fine if you want to build that box for a business or anyone who seriously intends to mine for the long term, but isnât this thread about hobbiests?
Thatâs not inflation.
Whatever
only way youâre making a profit is with a mining crash combined with a pump.
That is incorrect.
weâve empirically proven that it is correct.
Itâs a free country though, you can believe whatever you want.
In fact, I encourage you to start a thread entitled âEthereum IS for hobbyists and mining is GREAT!â to discuss those beliefs.
This thread is for levelheaded information dense discussion, and memes.
And Iâve shown why your method is intellectually dishonest.
Same to you.
Iâm not an evangelist for Ethereum. Iâm not interested in spending time on those types of things. I do enjoy critically thinking about whether something is profitable or not in various types of situations though.
Those donât go together and this should be a warning for anyione seriously reading this thread for information on whether or not they should be mining or buying cryptocurrencies, or neither.
in your financially invested, prone to rationalizing opinion.
lmao these are olymian level mental gymnastics. Basic economic and fiscal literacy isnât âintellectual dishonestyâ
The warning is clear, and you serve as a wonderful case study:
Donât get involved unless you know what youâre doing
Seriously though, youâre incredibly entertaining.
They are both true, and appropriate.
No, theyâre not. It is if you misrepresent it by intentionally precluding positives and not doing the same for negatives. It wreaks of an agenda.
I believe thereâs an opposite to survivorship bias and you may have it since you feel the need to point out potential problems with peopleâs perspectives (I didnât intentionally do the P thing, it just kinda happened).
basic economic and fiscal literacy
I do not believe what you have used is that.
That should be common sense. Clearly I know something of what Iâm doing because Iâm making money doing it. âBy your own definitionâ, yes because my definition is sane.
The untired words of a troll. Ladies and gentleman, Exhibit AZ.