I was halfway through a post suggesting the thread not descend into circlejerkery, but then I realised what thread I was in.
Grab a member and start yanking my friend. You’re in the Shitcoin Lounge now.
Yes, if you have a large amount years old pre-existing hash power, and live in a country that only charges ~$0.034/KWH for consumer electricity (Rick lives in Taiwan iirc, and they charge ~NT$2.8/KWH) the profit margins open up a little to small(er) miners.
Rick’s barely turning a profit with almost free electricity and roughly twice the hash power. He even says he has concerns about short term profitability, concluding he probably should have just bought Ethereum.
None of these circumstances apply to you.
What’s even funnier is that he could run a memory optimization strap and made way more on zcash
That is a misrepresentation of the video I watched.
He thinks it’s a misappropriation of resources because it’ll take him longer to get 10 Ether, his goal, than he originally expected, and he bought his hardware for Boinc.
barely making profit
In what world is $400+ per month “barely making profit”?
… I mean, his listed he power costs in a table in the video.
His power costs twice as much as mine does ($0.1651 vs $0.08125).
Between the approximate $400 profit at current rates, and the fact he’s making it at twice the power cost, you’re right, his circumstances are not mine.
Part of my problem with some things you say isn’t so much what you say, but how you say it. But here? Blatant misrepresentation of facts.
I actually looked into it, You’re right about the power. it turns out Taiwan actually charges you more the more you use:
I assumed he’d just mistyped/miscalculated the figures, but at the time I wasn’t aware that they had an escalating cost model. All the references I’d checked beforehand just quoted NT$2-2.8
Turns out that number can really get run up with overages (not as high as 16 cents/KWH unless there’s some sort of tax I’m not privy to or his landlord gouges him, still not sure where he’s getting that number)
Since he can write off the considerable equipment costs he’s making money. yes. And I would still call 400 a month a thin profit margin, because it is given the risk profile and capital commited to it. Even large miners make thin margins.
I never disputed that people with paid off equipment could make money, I said getting in wasn’t profitable because you won’t hit ROI while your rig is still competitive unless you can buy in at sufficient scale, which is true.
Yep, the increasing difficulty is reducing his margins, and he said it may have been more appropriate just to buy it. He even goes over the margin reductions (though it seems like he didn’t fully understand the difficulty increase) and basically just hand waved them “because it probably won’t increase.”
i.e. concerns about his short term profitability
apart from the power thing, which was unintentional, I’ve not misrepresented anything.
Is it true that no real work is being done? All that power wasted on verifying bitcoin hashes…
More appropriate to buy it since he intended his equipment to be used for Boinc.
The reason he used his equipment for mining is because he thought he could make more money than he did. He still made money. The notable profits he thought he’d be making justified using the equipment for something it wasn’t intended for to him.
But that’s irrelevant. Let’s assume he did what he said he probably should have. Bought the ethereum directly instead.
If he had done that when he started mining to begin with, he would be down $75 per Ethereum because it was over $320 when he started and it is now at $250. Or, if he bought the same amount of Ethereum in the same time period to simulate what he’s experienced mining, he’d be at a wash because about 1/2 was purchased above $250 and 1/2 was purchased below $250.
However, in mining, he’s trading $300 per month in electricity for 3.125 Eth (5 Eth in 48 days) per Month, effectively paying sub-$100 prices.
The disadvantage to that is “not using the equipment for Boinc”.
He made the right choice, financially, to mine.
His interest in short term profits doesn’t make as much sense since his whole thing was “get 10 Ethereum because we’d expect it to go up in price.” beyond paying for his Vega GPUs, which buying Ethereum would’ve been a bad decision for anyway.
It’s like me. I could be spending the $100 a month I do on electricity on buying Ethereum, or I could be using my GPUs to mine 1 Ethereum per month. Either I pay $100 for 0.4 Eth (about) or I pay $100 for 1 Eth.
… basic math says mining is the right answer for anyone who already has the hardware.
That’s not a fair comparison to make because if he was a sane human being he would’ve valued the ethereum mined by its value at the time it was mined.
Any change in value after having mined or bought the ethereum is entirely detached.
The timing of the coming into ownership is of significant relevance, as the value of every other cryptocurrency and how that changes over the time you’re in ownership of the coin will determine the USD you get out of it in the end.
Regardless of whether he bought or mined the ethereum, he lost value.
He only made profits because he didn’t account for his hardware as a cost.
I seriously doubt you’re on about him straight up buying 10 eth at once because that’d be a lot of money to throw at a cryptocurrency on a whim.
Either I pay $100 for 0.4 Eth (about) or I pay $2000 for a mining rig then spend the rest of eternity waiting for my rig to mine enough Eth to cover the cumulative cost of my electricity bill and my miner.
Imaginary money until he sells the Ethereum. The Ethereum is worth what you pay to get it. So his electrical costs should be what is used because it’s his actual cost to obtain the asset. If he isn’t selling it as he gets it, it’s value to others is effectively imaginary.
If you must bring it to that, all calculations for whether something is profitable or not is arbitrary tripe.
If you’d continued reading, I mention that. Using his chart showing each deposit of 1 Eth, it averages out to a wash where he paid above and below current market price about the same.
This was written assuming we assess his value right now. Imaginary lost value VS actual lost value is different in that he actually paid $300 per month in electricity and effectively lost what Ethereum has dropped in that same time frame assuming he sold it when he got it.
But when you say “he lost the value the Ethereum he had dropped”, you’re saying “he lost this much money assuming he sold the Ethereum when he obtained it.”
That doesn’t make any sense for someone who’s intention is to hold it long term and sell it later, as he stated he intended to because he believes, or hopes, it will rise in price beyond what it currently is or was when he obtained it.
Because he already owned it. It’s doesn’t make sense to count it as a cost when you buy it for something else before even considering mining.
No, I actually was considering that alongside the two alternatives: Mining and buying Eth slowly in the same way he’d receive it mining.
The point was to see which of the 3 possibilities would get him more in the end, and the answer was mining using what historical data we have and assuming he sold it now.
Seems to be an ignorant correction because he already owned his rig for a different purpose.
For people who already own their systems, do you think the better choice is to sell that system and use the money to buy Ethereum? Because if you’re considering the cost of the hardware they already own, then saying mining isn’t worth it, that’s the only option.
Now they don’t have an asset if they sell said computer, which they could have used for whatever they originally intended it for.
On a personal basis, that is more costly. On a monetary basis, that is more costly because you almost certainly won’t get the same money back you paid for the system, and you won’t have the system either.
In every way I can find, if you already own the system, mining is the better choice for the short term, both in obtaining Ethereum at cheaper prices and giving you the utility of the machine aside from mining (depending on what you’re needs are for it). I use my computer while it’s mining all the time for web browsing, watching videos, simpler games, and the like.
Not only that, you are turning something that was once just a cost into something that generates income by keeping the hardware and mining.
Rick had two choices. Mine or Boinc. Mining basically gave him about $1200 at the cost of about $450. He already bought the hardware. He was already gonna use it for something that didn’t make him money. He profited whatever he profits once he sells and imo saying he wasn’t profitable is tantamount to lying if you want to say you have to consider the current value as what he has now for Ethereum.
I find the whole “you must count your hardware cost to consider if you are profitable” concept inane, especially when you aren’t counting the other side of selling it later, and entirely if the person already owns the hardware.
It’s fine if you want to build that box for a business or anyone who seriously intends to mine for the long term, but isn’t this thread about hobbiests?
That’s not inflation.
only way you’re making a profit is with a mining crash combined with a pump.
That is incorrect.
we’ve empirically proven that it is correct.
It’s a free country though, you can believe whatever you want.
In fact, I encourage you to start a thread entitled “Ethereum IS for hobbyists and mining is GREAT!” to discuss those beliefs.
This thread is for levelheaded information dense discussion, and memes.
And I’ve shown why your method is intellectually dishonest.
Same to you.
I’m not an evangelist for Ethereum. I’m not interested in spending time on those types of things. I do enjoy critically thinking about whether something is profitable or not in various types of situations though.
Those don’t go together and this should be a warning for anyione seriously reading this thread for information on whether or not they should be mining or buying cryptocurrencies, or neither.
in your financially invested, prone to rationalizing opinion.
lmao these are olymian level mental gymnastics. Basic economic and fiscal literacy isn’t “intellectual dishonesty”
The warning is clear, and you serve as a wonderful case study:
Don’t get involved unless you know what you’re doing
Seriously though, you’re incredibly entertaining.
They are both true, and appropriate.
No, they’re not. It is if you misrepresent it by intentionally precluding positives and not doing the same for negatives. It wreaks of an agenda.
I believe there’s an opposite to survivorship bias and you may have it since you feel the need to point out potential problems with people’s perspectives (I didn’t intentionally do the P thing, it just kinda happened).
basic economic and fiscal literacy
I do not believe what you have used is that.
That should be common sense. Clearly I know something of what I’m doing because I’m making money doing it. “By your own definition”, yes because my definition is sane.
The untired words of a troll. Ladies and gentleman, Exhibit AZ.