How do you handle those that do not comply with the system?
No one is forcing to comply with the system. They’ll probably not get the benefits of participation. In essence, it’s just a reference and bench-marking platform… It no more different than people who are not using the internet, they don’t get the benefits that internet provides…
but the basic idea is, it must empower individuals like a tool of progress… so people are motivated to use it…
I think adoption is going to be abysmal. The value wouldnt become apparent until a major portion of the population uses the system.
Theres free apps available now to help people track diets and excersize. Not a far cry from maintaining health information. I know of two people that use them in conjunction with their smort watch. And they dont use it consiatantly.
Forced compliance is probably the only solution.
If you create a right motivation. people make money from it. supported by all parties.
Think of it like a parent framework that gets infused within capitalism… That’s why i use terms called Simulation Platform, attention network, logistics of intelligence management and UBI network because only one of those things can exist to be effective… please don’t think of this as anti-competitive and all that, all the competitive features are under it… like there’s only one internet…
I conceptualized them them in that sense…
You do need to keep in mind that we don’t like in a perfect system. Even with the right motivation many people wont use something, even if it on paper is good for them.
Free will means there will always be people (and probably many) who chose not to do something.
Some people are also less interested in money. Just needs to be factored in, a perfect system cannot be made as it will have to account and accommodate for these people, so you’ll likely have to make an imperfect system that meets some of the goals but possibly not all.
I understand it perfectly… funny thing is, what you said there apply to me more than anyone else… everything about me is kind of anti-pattern and not intentionally… so that was the first thing that I accounted…
No system can be perfect… this system actually embraces the difference in cognition, personalities and motivation… which even current system fails to account for… it allows people to do whatever they like as long as they are not intentionally harming other out of their personal space.
The studies of UBI are pretty useless; mainly because they are done by economists instead of actual social and behavioral scientists. There are no long term studies at all; and the methodologies are pretty ridiculous.
The notion that people are likely to get lazy and depressed when being secure isn’t in line with any behavioral study ever done. The problem with short term studies is, the people involved know they are short term studies. That is total lack of ethological consideration; and completely incompetent. These people know that they are going to be floated for a while and then go back to normality. That’s ridiculous. They have no reason to change their behaviors. It’s bore them for twelve months and see what happens. Pure stupidity.
Finance is the biggest threat to UBI by a long shot; and I’d be happy to post an enormous text wall on why… if anyone’s interested.
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Why not? Push it…
I’m inclined to disagree with you, but I haven’t really looked into it. I’ll have to dig more into this.
My theory is this:
The baseline condition of life is something like terrible suffering (look at the world right now). If you take that away, you take away the drive for people to become something worth remembering.
It’s a sort of threat by nature. “you’ll become a miserable being if you don’t work”
In order to feel good about yourself, you have to set a noble and worthwhile goal in life, and actively seek to achieve it.
You don’t need that when you have UBI, because you can life comfortably and be amused all day by X service that this era of excess has allowed the creation of.
Interesting concept. How would a 12 month study differ from an unending program then? Let’s say Theoreticalville implements UBI as a matter of policy, not a 12 month study. (which, I don’t consider to be short term, but that’s another thing)
Why is there more incentive to go out and do more? Aside from a devaluation of the local currency?
This might be off topic. If we want to have a UBI debate, I think it should probably be a separate topic. Although I am very interested in this debate.
Back to the original topic, this whole thing appears to boil down to a sort of social credit system that might determine who can work, who can operate in society and who cannot.
Lets ignore for the moment the efficacy of that to even know who is safe or not when we can’t be sure this virus won’t continually mutate and re-infect those who got sick previously much like the common cold or flu does now.
If this system can be used to discriminate in any meaningful way, based on any factor such as race, sex, sexual preference, age, or freedom of association with certain protected classes, and if it can be perceived or even misconstrued as such, this is dead in the water both politically and probably legally. It doesn’t matter if an AI is making these decisions based on facts or science.
I don’t believe its too far to say that you might find such opposition to be bipartisan either as there’s arguments to make that this could hurt people on all sides of the political spectrum.
Finally, I think we’ve had several recent examples of AI gone racist or “evil” based on unintended consequences of adding facts and data or just the raw knowledge and personality of the internet. That is no small hurdle to overcome.
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I hope you mean who is at risk, who’s compromised… it has nothing to do with social credit and all…
sorry what? those attributes aren’t even checked for the pandemic abstraction except age and sex… it mostly relies on in-risk and out-risk…
this is a valid point… so there are different types of AI. some AI which are trained on racial data may end up having racial biases. But it’s nothing like that… This AI is more like awareness AI… for the most part data oriented and some models based of personal benchmarks. The word AI causes a lot of confusion. I should have used Extended Awareness Model of user but it would be long type…
If you allow an AI to be trained on real world data in a world where 4chan and 8kun exist, the outcome will be racist.
Consider that the Awesomesauce Theorem.
I mean, being realistic this whole thing kind of hinges on a Star Trek universe as a reality to work. It doesn’t pass the sniff test of real people as they are today.
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sure… but with few clever devices, right implementation and some training. you would be surprised… Technology is getting cheaper, 5G is around the corner, AR glasses will be part of human experience, native language translation is a thing. You can integrate new kind of hyper intuitive visual user experience etc…
I am actually thinking that illiterate wives of illiterate farmers in some rural part of India will also participate… Accessibility is less issue if there’s motivation for people to innovate… and not to forget the companion thingy, it’s enough aware to interact with it’s user…
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Even a five year study would have more impact. Many would find their passion and find a way to make money at it. Entrepreneurships would be more common; and many wouldn’t go back to their previous life. 12 months isn’t likely to have a different outcome than 6 months. It’s just more cruel. 
Could we possibly get a summery from the OP as to what all of this means/was intended to mean?
I read through the entire thing and admittedly my brain turned off at the mention of UBI, but I’m struggling to make sense of any of it.
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Honestly, the thread kind of went off the rails a little bit. It went off in a few different directions.
Sure… give me sometime…
Yeah, I read it myself… I shouldn’t have mentioned UBI… I realize that it flew off the rails quite a lot… but It’ll try to tie them this weekend with a summary and clear explanation in the scope of pandemic…
Your mockups are good, don’t misunderstand me there.
For myself, everything so far lacks the technical details to make sense.
Details of cause are not part of a generalisation.
But you have to have those each time when you talk about the actual implementation and System(s).
I have the impression that most problems stem from you having a detailed particular system and implementation in your head, that you then generalise to explain it and then me trying to interpolate all the details back into it to then possibly implement it.
Complicated by many things,
Of cause I do interpolate different details onto the thing, your stile of writing, the Names given to things and you meandering through all of it.
That i’m not a native is another complication on my side and I don’t have the feeling that you are either.
And I guess all of that makes this not work for me at all.
Another impression I have is that you talk about a thing, some detail you haven’t explained jet comes into question and you respond with something along the lines of “that is not an issue , it is fixed in the implementation …”
Which does not even come close to an answer.
At least not for me.
And you do that multiple times not only to me I think.
My generalisation here is another issue, sorry for that, but I’m tired of this.
And it is not an issue to leave out details or explain them later, but I think you should improve that when and how substantially.
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I̶ ̶a̶m̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶c̶u̶s̶s̶ ̶t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶d̶e̶t̶a̶i̶l̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶.̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶e̶v̶e̶l̶o̶p̶e̶r̶?̶ ̶w̶h̶y̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶e̶s̶p̶e̶r̶a̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶n̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶d̶e̶t̶a̶i̶l̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶u̶c̶h̶?̶ ̶A̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶ ̶s̶o̶f̶t̶w̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶c̶h̶i̶t̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶u̶n̶d̶e̶r̶s̶t̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶m̶m̶e̶d̶i̶a̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶m̶o̶c̶k̶-̶u̶p̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶w̶r̶i̶t̶i̶n̶g̶.̶.̶ ̶I̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶d̶d̶e̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶d̶e̶t̶a̶i̶l̶s̶.̶
I must clarify that I have a scattered thoughts and I get derailed easily… I am also pretty dumb at reading others. I do not understand by reading well and I have to translate in my head… It greatly helps if you ask question like you would ask a 10 year old… very specific as in which part you don’t understand exactly?
I̶ ̶a̶m̶ ̶s̶o̶r̶r̶y̶.̶.̶ ̶p̶l̶e̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶g̶o̶.̶.̶ ̶:̶p̶r̶a̶y̶:̶
I am sorry… I get now what you are saying… you are looking at from point of implementing it… I didn’t think anyone could do this the way I am describing right away… you can possibly create a non privacy-first implementation but implementing this will require a great deal of technical engineering that I would love to discuss with you on separate thread.