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Browser Wars


Well then. Sounds like I have some research ahead of me. :smiley:


Should mention this is basically the old Mozilla Suite.


This was a Debian fork of Mozilla’s Navigator Suite (Netscape Navigator). It happened due to icon licensing conflicts.

Iceape/Iceweasel was also a debian fork because of icon licensing. They pull from upstream Mozilla projects and change icons, name and licensing. They are not much different from FF and the other Mozilla projects.


What are they gonna do about the new FF quantum engine?


What do you mean?
They are working in parts of servo as they deem the modules stable/reliable enough. Check out the beta builds or nightly for your own experience.

FF 57 is multi-thread capable and multi core aware. Plugins have been re-written to be more secure. Important portions of the engine are being ported to RUST for intrinsic security.

If you are asking about something else, could you please clarify.


That…doesn’t even make sense.

Iceweasel is dead. It was never much more than a rebranded Firefox because the terms of Firefox’s trademarks etc. didn’t meet Debian’s free software guidelines. There were also some backported security because Debian’s slow feature release cycle demanded security fixes for old versions of the browser. But Debian and Firefox have reconciled their differences and there are official ESR (extended support release) versions of Firefox now. Nobody is going to continue Iceweasel because there is simply no reason to.

Icecat, despite the similar name, is a totally different project with different goals. It’s a product of GNU and RMS’s vision and it’s main goal is to add features to block or restrict non-free (under the GNU definition) web apps. It’s going to continue as it always has because your vaguely insinuated “stuff mozilla is pulling” is totally irrelevant to them.


Icecat just got interesting. Thanks for your suggestion, I’ll definitely be looking at this one.


Usually I am a browser agnostic but I like Opera
Back when I had an X3 one of my fav websites had a TON of javascript enabled advertisements that choked the crap out of my PC, I was using Mint as my OS
I just wanted to read the articles.
Links2 solved that problem :slight_smile:


Netscape Navigator


I was a big fan of the old Opera but after the rework it never had any features that stood out, it was just another Chrome (with less features). I used it up until the first Vivaldi tech preview hit and switched over, never looked back. I don’t know what they implemented until now, might try it again at some point but the old Opera had so much they just discarded back then…
Also who knows what those chinese ownsers are doing in the background :confused:
If you liked the old Opera maybe take a look at Vivaldi too, it’s from the same people. You can also import all your Opera stuff (even from O12!).




Never caught the Opera bug I used it briefly in 2010 but switched over to Firefox and have been using it since. I did have a brief love affair with chrome but after a data breach I sobered back up.


Somewhere in the garage I have the diskette…and the 1" thick instruction book that came with it :slight_smile:

In my case they probably call Langley
"Hey you should watch trucker and the sites he visits"
“Yea we know, you should hear what that asshole says when he calls his congressman”

but I wil give Vivaldi a try and thank you :slight_smile:


Vivaldi for me.
I was using Opera before that, but Vivaldi just has a little “something” to it, it feels more natural to use, i’m still waiting an in-browser sync service, it would be an even better browser with this feature.


They’re still working on that as well as mobile and the Mail client. Von Tetzchner said somewhere they are already usable in a way, but not for daily use. Sooo… soon™


I don’t know what to say about this except I said before (I didn’t say this on this form I am pretty sure), people need to get the hell off the alt-right bandwagon before things get disastrously bad for us that just want to use the Internet freely, but nope, them and their political grand standing bullshit and crusade against liberalism combined with whatever the fuck Antifa is doing (which I am disliking as well) is digging the Internet as a whole into a deeper hole than it already is.

And we already know there are quite some control freaks in business and government as it is, there was no need to give them a reason to be control freaks.

And that’s enough for the political rant, for web browsers, it’s a tough choice to pick, mine would probably be Firefox. Unless there is a viable alternative besides Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge


Thanks for your contribution. It is impossible for any technology to stay neutral in a political sense. I kinda question the entire “keep the talk tech and no politics” policy on this forums faq. There is a literal war being waged over browsers, arguably the most frequently used app in enterprise and client configurations around the globe. It is important to think about these issues when thinking through browser choice.


This was because no good political conversations could be sustain. Just about every one of them developed into a flame war and created too much work for the mods.

Since Microsoft is killing off IE and going to Edge, this is a good thing. If you look at Edge’s engine on GitHub its really quite fascinating. At least with Edge they are giving it the attention it deserves; although they are like 5 years too late. Had they just made a good browser to begin with they wouldn’t be in this mess.

Their method to get updates to Edge via system upgrade was a flawed approach set up in the early days. Because someone at MS thought that it was a good idea at the time; but hell it may have been a good one then. Since MS new update schema is in place, they can roll out updates to Edge more frequently so at least with browsers this is a good thing.


Well, I can agree here slightly. All web based java apps now seem to be moving towards html5 and with friggin javascript we are going to need faster and faster browsers due to web page sizes bloating up (IE Lunduke speaking of

I could see how politics could create a lot of work for mods because civil discussion is something rare in the circle of the body politic. I think my statement kind of reflects how pointed technologies can really be in our technopolis, but I can agree that having a slippery slope of political discussion can definitely lead to bad/unhelpful threads. Which comes to highlight a more philosophical point; how can we talk tech AND have civil political discussion? <-- Far outside the scope of this thread / forum, I know.


Have. Have moved to html5. The only ones that haven’t are in the enterprise where its no longer being maintained. cough kronos cough.

I watched that entire podcast. Javascript is not to blame here. The page sizes with Angular, React, Vue, & Ember, hover at about ~1 MByte. Even with a very large webpage, it prabbaly woluldn’t hit 2 MBytes if its designed well. This is just for the html and js stack not CSS and other types.

The real issue with that page are the external trackers and excessive use of large CSS frameworks. I just loaded CNN and the page in total uses ~7.9 MBytes (w/ uBlock Origin + Privacy Badger). With those off I’m seeing ~8.3 MBytes. If you look at the requests:

  • HTML = 156 KBytes fine
  • JS = 2.32 MBytes acceptable
  • Images = 891 KBytes okay
  • Fonts = 1.18 MBytes wut
  • CSS = 4.13 MBytes dafuq

The real culprit here is the gross use of fonts and CSS.