I upgraded one of my machines in February to a Ryzen 3950x. The processor was about $700 and $339 for an Aurus Master. So $1040+tax.
I think it’s time to upgrade my other machine and am wondering if the Ryzen 3950x is still the best value in performance vs price. It looks like the Ryzen has gone up in price since Feb, and some of the i9, etc chips seem to be on sale lately. I’ve always used AMD and several months ago the Ryzens were creaming everything Intel had for less money. I’m wondering if, with the Intel price drops and the Ryzen increases if that is still the case?
The machine to be upgraded is running an AMD FX 4.0Ghz 8 core. I’d like it to be at least on par with the Ryzen 3950x build, but I’d like to know if there’s better value that beats the Ryzen 3950x in the $~1000 range for processor+board.
There was talk of a new Threadripper, but it was a Lenovo exclusive, and very expensive. I want to build my own.
I don’t know anything about Intel, if these chis/prices are any good:
You can get a decent Epyc for $999, but the motherboard options are pathetic. Expensive+all sorts of QA problems.
I run Debian and do 3D rendering and video editing work. It dual boots into Windows for games/CAD. I think anything modern would be better in performance than the FX series though since it’s about eight years old. I expect to use this new computer for another eight years.
What’s the best performance/value in chips right now?
Unless you get an exceptionally good deal, there’s no reason to consider Intel processors right now. Using MSRP, none of their chips are good values compared to their Ryzen counterparts.
The successor to Ryzen 3950x is the 5950x which was released fairly recently. There are currently supply issues, but they seem to be replenishing stocks enough that they’re hard to get, but not impossible.
Current boards use the B550 or X570 chipsets. Pick the board based on the features you need/want. Both support the 3950x and 5950x.
For Debian, be weary of non-Intel 2.5G LAN chipsets, which have started making their way into consumer boards. They work using a non-mainline driver, but the Intel 1G and 2.5G NICs Just Work™ on Debian.
When you say workstation, are you talking raw power chutzpuh? Or obtaining more internal/peripheral functionality? The mainboard can make or break, such an intended mindset.
It depends… This is my “secondary” computer that I’m upgrading, so it is the one that I use for:
Evaluating new Linux versions
Long resource tie-up operations (rendering)
Experimental programing stuff
Dual boot Windows 7 for CAD (Windows only) and games.
Things that cover it’s desk in crap that I don’t want on my main work space. (example, breadboards for Arduino prototyping projects).
So I have my main computer that I don’t mess with (currently running Mint 19.3, because if it ain’t broke…) and the “secondary” to do things that would break or otherwise block my main computer.
I feel like, if I need something that is high I/O (lot’s of PCIe lanes), that Ryzen is the wrong chip for it. I am unimpressed with all Ryzen boards for lack of PCIe slots, but that is a processor shortcoming (or “design choice”).
Sometimes though, when I upgrade my “secondary” computer and it is better than the main one, then it becomes the new primary. It depends on what is available.
So the more aggro you go, when it comes to chipset, would dictate how much core can the motherboard offload from the CPU. Choosing the higher chipset, will offer more physical advantage [more PCIe -NVMe / better MB component cooling / etc.]. IF you’re playing around with A LOT of PCIe peripherals [as of moment, or forecasting], then yes likes of TR / SP3 socket become the viable route. SP3 host a stupid amount of processor variants
That 550M board looks disturbingly close, to my ASRrock 450M board - I haven’t had any shenananigans, working with this board. The lower PCIe 16 slot is x4 electrically [small btw]. While dual M.2 slots are available, one = NVMe and other is SATA
An alternate [X570] [especially if you’re looking at dual booting / using Windows]
Yes the vrm on that particular board is not really good enough for a Ryzen 9 cpu.
Also pairing the highest end cpu’s with the cheapest motherboard you can find,
is never really a great idea to begin with.
What does that mean in practical terms? When looking at boards, how do i know if the vrm is “good enough”?
Is the X570 board GoldenAngel1997 linked above sufficient?
What does “aggro” mean in this context?
What’s the best board for a 3950x that has the lowest price without sacrificing performance or quality? (assuming I don’t care about many of the “features” like wi-fi and colored lights).
A review of that said “3950x works great even with slight overclock”.
What’s the best power/performance/quality board, for the lowest price, ignoring features that don’t contributes to power/performance/quality, and ignoring aesthetics?
If you want to run a 12- or 16 core CPU on a budget, I very much recommend a $150-$180 B550. The X570 boards at that price point are mostly low-end, but it’s the mid-range for B550.
My own goto-brand is the Aorus Elite or Aorus Pro family, been having quite a bit of luck with those boards and Ryzen.
So I guess I’m having a hard time figuring out which board is going to work.
So there’s the ASRock X570 PHANTOM GAMING 4 for $150, the ASRock X570 TAICHI AM4 for $299, the ASUS Prime X570-Pro for $244 and the GIGABYTE X570 AORUS MASTER for $359.
I have the AORUS MASTER on my main computer. It works fine, but there’s some annoyances like fan curves that could be better, temp monitoring doesn’t work on Linux, etc. And I took the wifi chip out immediately. The dual LAN is nice, but I put a 10Gbe card in anyway. I use an external audio interface. I can always add more USB ports on a card or with a hub if required.
I used the ASUS Prime X570-Pro for my mom with a 3900. Seems to work fine.
But do I NEED to spend $250+ to get a stable board for a 3950x?
I don’t intend to overclock. But I do intend to render with CPU at 100% for extended periods. I just need something basic that will run the chip stable.
So I’m bothered by this vrm thing and the power phases. And the more I look into it, the more I find there’s lying and fake phases from manufactures, etc. Is there anything that a $300-$500 board is going to do that the $150 board isn’t in terms of stability?
Can the CPU be damaged? Should I not trust the mobo manufacturer’s when they say that a 3950x is compatible?
With X570, I’d say yes - you could probably find cheaper that works, but then you’d be giving up good features and longevity for price, not a good trade-off IMO.
If all you plan to do is stick a GPU and a couple of NVMe in there, the B550 is good enough for everything but VFIO virtualization (and even then, it’s possible to do just a bit extra fiddling and a bit limited). If you don’t plan on doing Linux, that’s not even a concern. As for PCIe 4.0 lanes, for the foreseeable future (next five years or so), you only need PCIe 4.0 speeds for GPUs and maybe NVMe drives - and even then, 4.0 speeds are really only interesting for the boot drive, for the other ones SATA SSDs are still quite speedy.
Do remember a 4.0 NVMe still works perfectly well with a 3.0 NVMe port, it’s just not quite as fast as it could be. Most B550 @ $150+ have excellent VRMs as well, but X570, decent VRMs starts @ $200+.
Not damaged per se, but you will have the CPU run much hotter, and your cooling will need to work extra extra hard.
When I look at mobo specs, how do I know if it has a “good” vrm, other than guessing based on price?
So is the “good”/“bad”/“ok” vrm thing just about how hot it gets?
I intend to dual boot Win 7 and Debian. KVM Virtualization support is good.
I’m not trying to be cheap on critical parts, I just don’t want to spend extra money on RGB lights, wifi, better audio jacks and stickers (if I don’t have to) since those things don’t really add any value for me.
Essentially, yes. However, don’t just write it off. At first it’s just throttling, but then the components will degrade much quicker over time, meaning a year from now you could be running into constant throttling, even have stability issues over time, and that could over time degrade both CPU and motherboard so that your new shiny 4.8GHz boosting CPU barely reaches 4GHz after a while.
If you plan on the system sticking around, it is worth it to invest in a slightly more expensive board with better VRMs. If the system will be scrapped for parts within a year, it’s less worth it.
How do I actually check for vrm quality and issues with a certain board? And can it be done before purchase?
What specifically about this board below tells me it’s vrm isn’t any good? Just because it’s $150?
This one below is $40 more and adds wifi. How do I know how much of that $40 is for things like wifi which don’t affect vrm?
What about after-purchase testing? If I wanted to “play myth buster”, and I got an $80 board and put a Ryzen 3950x in it, is there a test/check that can be run within the first week to see if there will ever be problems? Can I just have it render 24/7 for several days and make sure the temps stay under x degrees C? $300 saved on a board can buy a nice heat-sync and a lot of fans!
Hardware Unboxed, did a sizeable series of X570 comparatives [+ playing around with bigger CPUs – appropriate to your plans]. See this one Ep. below for a prime example of that
Well most people don’t really have an advanced knowledge on vrm´s and component quality.
So it´s not strange that you don’t really understand what i´m up to.
However to keep it in plain and simple terms, the mosfets used in vrm of that said board are not good enough for a Ryzen 9 cpu.
Those mosfets will just run really hot, till a point that they might just over heat,
and the system could crash or worse…
Of course you could drop the cpu in the said board and it will work.
But that is just not what you really want.
Same counts for the X570 Phantom Gaming 4 by the way.
The vrm on that board is also pretty poor as well.
Price on a board is kinda an indication sometimes.
But it does not always has to be the case.
Also you don´t have to buy the most expensive board you can find.
The Asrock X570 Taichi on the other hand has a pretty decent vrm.
That is good enough to handle a Ryzen 9 cpu.
But there are also cheaper boards with good vrm’s as well.
It just kinda depends on the features you like also.
X570:
Asrock x570 Taichi.
Gigabyte X570 Aorus pro.
Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite.
Msi X570 Tomahawk.
Asus X570-E Strix.
Asus X570-F strix.
Asus X570 Tuf Gaming plus.
B550:
Gigabyte B550 Aorus pro.
Asus B550-E strix.
Msi B550 Tomahawk.
i will add a few more decent B550 boards that don´t brake the bank later.
I still need to make a vrm detail overview list on B550 boards.
But i didn´t have the time yet.
Decent B550 boards generally start at around $170,-.
But in my opinion it does not make much sense to spend,
more then $220,- on a B550 board.
Because at that price point you could verywell just pick a decent X570 like the Tomahawk.
Most B550 @ $150+ have excellent VRMs as well, but X570, decent VRMs starts @ $200+.