Ban On Oktoberfest

I had to laugh at this......have you played Fall Out? remember the children of the Atom?

The sad truth is that if you destroy every known religion on the face of the planet just about as fast new religious thinking and beliefs will crop up, the fact is that a lot of humanity has weak moral fiber and require a outside greater force to give them the answers and purpose they seek. Humanity has zero chance of surviving on it's own without some outside force to worship or believe in, be it aliens from Alpha Centaur, mythical deities, or a elevated human being a substantial amount of humanity can not cope without the belief in a higher power.

Honestly it's fine in my mind that humanity is that way, if people need a crutch and they can get that support from a belief, and it gives them a reason or purpose and it doesn't infringe on the beliefs of others...fine, no problem, but once it becomes radicalized and the fanatics take over it's time to start thinning that portion of the herd, which is what has happen throughout history, almost every war has had this basis maybe not totally based on religious beliefs but the big three reason people die on this planet is territorial disputes, ethnic cleansing, and religious beliefs. It's been that way since day one and will continue well beyond any of our lives.

Two things.

I want this group who is asking for the ban to let me know how it works out for them.

I also predict that this group won't be welcome in Germany for too much longer. I'm not saying all Muslims, just the ones who are behind the idea of banning Oktoberfest.

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No, I personally think that something has to be done, the big question is "what?".
Germany and Austria are in a particular situation because of Hitler and the Nazis. Now politicians are overly welcoming to immigrants (economic migrants, war refugees or whatever else) and very lax on integrating them - and in some cases make them leave the country again when they commit a crime. The messages that this behaviour is sending is "do whatever you want, we can't say/do anything because then we're basically Nazis again".

No no. Religious extremeists want to blow up religious sites other than their own. And in the process they kill a bunch of people.

I am saying to very calmly evacuate everyone form all religious sites, and then blow it up.

Make it a level playing field for everyone.

Excuse me, Mr.Pope but can you please go on vacation for a little bit with all of your friends and rent the Vatican on AirB&B for me to rent and also at the same time tell no one to visit the Vatican.

P.S. Take plenty of pictures because it will be very different when you come back from vacation.

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I don't recall the terrorist attack sites in Paris being religious sites.
And I was under the impression that it is about killing their enemies - people, not buildings. It just happens that churches, mosques, etc. happen to be likely to be frequented by religious people.

See, it's not that all religious people are automatically bad. There are asshole atheists too, or in general: non-religiously motivated crimes (school shootings, etc.).

I'm pretty sure that "very calmly evacuating" will very likely not work at all. There would be resistance wihtout a doubt.
How would you prevent people from building religious sites again?
Don't get me wrong, I think without religion the world might be more positive (faster progress in technology, etc.) but enforcing it sounds like a pretty creepy idea for a dystopian novel.

You are not wrong. However I think the key difference is that peoples faith is hugely reinforced if there is something tangible for that faith to latch onto.

I had a muslim friend who truly believed that Mohammad was the one and only prophet. However, when her family took her to Mecca, she then KNEW that her faith was real.

And I think this is where the problem lies. There is a clear defining line between religion/belief, and dogmatism. Unfortunately I think major religious sites and artifacts is a large part of what turns simple church goers into dogmatic militants.

born the church of atom.

reminds me of a debate I once had with a friend of mine over creationism vs evolution and such. He claimed that the bible was proof on its own. I could claim a biology book is evidence then. Religion and politics both rely on dogmatic beliefs. This is why they are sore subjects to talk about because questioning somebodies personal dogma creates tension that these organizations teach.


I mean this in all sincerity. I simply do not have time to explain to you why you could be right or wrong.

We simply do not know exactly what the context of those attacks were. Were they attacking the west? Were they attacking certain groups of people? Were they just bored and wanted to run a muck? Is it all of the above?

Ultimately there is actually a fairly good chance those attacks were tied in with religious strife.

A different reason why Germany is welcoming immigrants might be the sales of weapons to the countries they are coming from. As politics have failed to lower the sales of the German military industries, they are now just doing this with the tax they get from the industry selling weapons.

I have no doubt that is very true, a tangible thing you can touch and see reinforces what the mind wants to believe, that's why religion requires a great deal of faith.....and why removing religion from humanity (without some mass adopted belief in something...skynet manbe?) is a impossibility.

And it's fine, mankind has wrestled with the concept of good vs evil, right vs wrong, god vs the devil for most of it's existence, remove that and imagine what would happen when crazies have no fear of eternal damnation in hell, I know most of us feel we are more logical or smarter then to buy into the whole after life concept of heaven and hell but for many that very concept is what keeps them on the straight and narrow path of being a good compassionate human being.

Religion is a social construct for many many people that provides hope for a future when their life is crap, but like I said it's the fanatics that push their beliefs as the only true correct belief and if challenged will kill you to prove their devotion to that belief....but we are really straying off topic to the realm that the forum prohibits discussion about religious topics so I'll just leave it at that.

Ultimately there is actually a fairly good chance those attacks were tied in with religious strife

I didn't say that this is not the case, in fact there's a very huge chance that those attackers had religious motives (shouting "Allahu Akbar" before shooting people or blowing oneself up is a pretty good indicator for that).

We simply do not know exactly what the context of those attacks were. Were they attacking the west? Were they attacking certain groups of people? Were they just bored and wanted to run a muck? Is it all of the above?

Well then what does it mean if the attacks were "against the west"? What do those people mean when they say "the west"? Different culture, different believes, countries where sharia law is considered state law. There are lots of clues that kinda rule out the "we don't exactly know the context of the attacks".

Atheist here too. Religion is cancer.

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Dang did not read whole thread huh.
Well I guess the time for intellectual thought is out the window with you stooping to immature name calling and targeting an individual on baseless claims.

Good thing I do not slander people with out evidence and quoting 3 words out of contest.

But now lets disassemble the rest of your self serving argument.

I am sure they do along with most every culture in the world. Do not see the point here.

Well this is not true and not to a fault of Islam. The Jews and Arabs have been fighting for centuries, these wars are recorded in there holy texts, but lets ignore primary source material and just Declare somthing because of reasons.

On to the Crusade argument.

The 1st crusade was started completely for geo-political reasons that had little or nothing to do with religion.
The Byzantines (Holy Roman Empire) wanted to retake land that the Selijuk Turks had taken from them in Anatolia during the Muslim Conquests of the Levant.
The Seljuk Turks started this war as a Jihad as well but really was just a ruler looking to expand his turf.
Emperor Alexios Komnenos, requested that Pope Urban II call for aid to this endeavor as a holy war, as Komnenos was a crafty dude he would get someone else to retake the land for him.

Well the Templar Knights did not participate in the 1st Crusade which as is recorded in known history as a response to The Muslim Invasion of the Levant but I got in to that earlier. (See Above.)

This is true, they are extremists. See my post from earlier in the thread quoted here.

Another time where taking someone out of context and calling them a bigot is not a self serving goal.
Good thing I am not ignorant on the subject matter I am speaking on so I do not stoop to individual name calling.

I never argued that, I just want the same right to point and laugh at there insane and insulting request.
Is it not odd to you that you are defending Islam, slamming Christians for the Fucking crusades, never mind the Be-headings, Stoning and literal Witch Hunts that are happening now. Not to mention you seem to have no Sympathy for the German people. Are Germans not defend-able from there culture being attacked?

Glad you agree.

I also have the right to say there request is Fucked Up.

Ahh here we are the finally of breaking down an argument made by the ignorant.
Finish with an insult. As if you have no intellectual ground to stand on. Smear your opponent.

Hmm so I am bigoted for judging a group on there actions not there beliefs or race... Makes sense.

I would like a citation for me being Hypocritical.... I do not see any bases for this claim.

I will accept this as fair. This would be objective and would vary from person to person, I respect your opinion unlike you not respecting mine and misquoting me to misrepresent me. Sure I bet to you I am an "ass-hat"

Hmm Subjective but, checks mirror I think I look fine.........

I would worry about your own image after this beat down.

drops mic

tl:dr, TekSyndicate should be a place for intellectual discussion and discord with out these petty ploys to attack peoples character.

That just shows you go back on what you say.


The Muslims did not instigate many wars. The government took care of that.

The Templars wanted the Holy land back.

Bull-shit They were the ones who started those wars.


Those are the extremists. At least we can agree on that.

Attack? It was a tiny little petition. Not an attack.

If the shoe fits......
I just can't stand it when people say things like what you say, then go back on it.
Muslims are not fucked up any more that the Christians. Which is what my point was.

sounds fringe-y. If you look hard enough, you'll find people want to simultaneously do and ban everything.

I never went back on what I said in fact I reaffirmed it in my rebuttle to you.

Ohh and
The Knights Templar did not fucking Exist before the 1st Crusade.

Basic reading so you can educate your self before just spouting off baseless claims.

From the above secondary sources.

About the Crusades.

"The First Crusade (1096–1099) was the first of a number of crusades that attempted to capture the Holy Lands, called by Pope Urban II in 1095. It started as a widespread pilgrimage in western christendom and ended as a military expedition by Roman Catholic Europe to regain the Holy Lands taken in the Muslim conquests of the Levant (632–661), ultimately resulting in the recapture of Jerusalem in 1099.

It was launched on 27 November 1095 by Pope Urban II with the primary goal of responding to an appeal from Byzantine Emperor Alexios I Komnenos, who requested that western volunteers come to his aid and help to repel the invading Seljuk Turks from Anatolia. An additional goal soon became the principal objectiveβ€”the Christian reconquest of the sacred city of Jerusalem and the Holy Land and the freeing of the Eastern Christians from Muslim rule."

About the Templars.

"Officially endorsed by the Roman Catholic Church around 1129, the Order became a favoured charity throughout Christendom and grew rapidly in membership and power. Templar knights, in their distinctive white mantles with a red cross, were among the most skilled fighting units of the Crusades.[5] Non-combatant members of the Order managed a large economic infrastructure throughout Christendom,[6] innovating financial techniques that were an early form of banking,[7][8] and building fortifications across Europe and the Holy Land."

Notice the dates there.....
So learn some fucking history before you try to educate people with your lies.

The Fucking Templars did not just go to the Middle East and start fucking shit up, to start the crusades.
But you think you are a fucking historian who can lecture others on the internet with no sources or proof and expect it to be accepted as law.

Please just stop with your Ignorance. That way people can have intellectual discussions on issues with out your disruptive drivel.

First you say that Muslims are fuck up.
Then you say that you don't think that.

He started the knights. that was my point

They fuck shit up no matter what and they were Christians.

I was making a point. And i didn't even say the First Crusade, you assumed that. Granted i should have been more specific about what i meant. So here is what i meant:
Muslims are not fucked up, others are just as bad as they are now, and what you said is wrong, morally. Stop trying to justify that first post, because you cant. That was wrong. I don't care what facts you put up (btw Wikipedia? really?) You didn't want to see that what you said was wrong. Oh and unless my history textbook is wrong, the Muslim religion was in no wars until the crusades. When the Knights were formed. And then slaughtered the Muslims, for the Holy Land.

Are you in like middleschool where you are told "DONT USE WIKIPEDIA"

How about you scroll to the Refences section.

Here Ill Post it you dishonest twat.

I am awaiting your Sources that you are claiming to say that there was no Muslim wars until The Templars happened.

Sounds like your educator is a crock or a shill for an ideology.

The Muslim Faith was born in Religous Conquest.
The Prophet Muhamad created a Unified Muslim state to then create the first Caliphates.

Source for my above statement.


Lets see you argue that the Muslims never started any wars until the Evil Templar came to ruin the day.