Autocad File Server with onsite backup Solutions. Qain, Wendell, PC Pro's?

Any suggestions? This is for a small business running win7 64bit with 12 workstations. They are autocad carlsson revit arcgis workstations. This will also be used for backing up the office managers computers as well. I will also implement a cloud backup as my third copy. Also I would like advice on what the best solution would be for the network. I need lightning fast transfers for 12 users simultaneously. I am replacing a nas system they hate and they're network hardware is home user staples grade. This will be the first engineering environment that I will be supporting and would really appreciate your input. Thanks in advance and if you want to post builds please be my guest I have a build ready on new egg but would love to see some other solutions.

 

Thanks Kevin

What are you trying to cure from the NAS? how big are the files? What's the generic workload of the current system? And what NAS are you currently using?

Also are u happy with a RAID configuration or do you want a seperated backup?

If you want to minimize the amount of work you make yourself, you might get ahold of iXsystems. They're the people behind FreeNAS and have a very good reputation. iX will work with you to custom tailor a solution to your needs, or you can pick from their off the shelf systems that are guaranteed to run great with FreeNAS. If you're more inclined to build the system yourself and keep down costs, you can at least look at their system specs to get an idea of what would be some good hardware to go with.

http://www.ixsystems.com/

Currently they are using a Netgear ReadyNAS 1. The files vary in size from 15mb to 1gb+.  I am not sure what generic workload is. I would like a file server, cloud copy, and a separate backup copy. I have witnessed a 5-10+ second delay with even opening pdf files off the nas vs on the computer. The main reason for my questions are I have never had to design a system where the user is working with file layers. Autocad imports several file layers all having to have a static target location which all 12 users may be accessing at the same time. They are unhappy with the delay in performance versus their windows server setup they had earlier. Could this be a network issue or crappy HDDs in the NAS? I personally wouldn't even use the NAS they have for my home sharing. They have mediocre network equipment. How many users can a freeNAS Mini system handle there are 12 workstations using the NAS simultaneously for 8 hours a day. They are mostly unhappy with the delay of opening and saving files which they said was instantaneous on the P4 server they had earlier running server2003. The workstations are win764bit AMD 8 cores cpu with SSD.

Could you give me a general budget to work with? I'll look into this when I get home and see what I can come up with...

and by generic workload, I meant how much data will be transmitted in an average day, but you roundabout answered that...

You might want to just contact iX to find out how many concurrent users the Mini will handle. I'm sure they will know, I just can't find the information in the google box. The FreeNAS Mini is based on an Intel 8 core Avoton CPU apparently, and 16GB-32GB ECC RAM. If a P4 box was fine, this should be extra fine.

First thing I would do while you are busy deciding what to do for the NAS is get a decent, managed gigabit switch in to replace whatever plastic box network gear they are abusing at the moment. If you are trying to do this a bit on the cheap, I've purchased for myself a used Dell PowerConnect 5324 for a good price on eBay, and I am very happy with it. There should be a pretty good selection of decommissioned network gear ripe for the picking.

One thing you can do to really up the capacity of the network is port teaming or link aggregation. To do this you will need more than 24 ports. If the 12 workstations all have dual NICs, you'll have burned through every port on a 24 port switch without even hooking up a NAS. Another thing to watch out for is that there might be a limit to the number of link aggregation groups a switch can handle. For example, my switch will do up to 8 LAGs, even though it is a 24 port switch. If you use two 24 port switches, you can do a 4 port LAG trunk between the switches, a 4 port LAG to the NAS, and split the 12 workstations equally across the switches. Per switch you'd be using 12 ports for 6 workstations and 4 ports for connecting between the two switches. We're already at 16 ports so far. Add 4 more on one switch for the NAS and that only leaves you 4 ports on that switch for the boss, a printer, the internet, and an access point, and 8 on the other for whatever else gets added to the network (pfSense box? more employees? more printers? more NAS? more APs?). Worse yet, it leaves only one LAG leftover between the two switches.

With a 48 port switch, you would eliminate 4 ports on each end for a total of 8 ports freed up, but the catch is you will have to spend more on a switch that supports 13+ LAGs. Looking around a bit, I found Dell and Cisco's sites to be rather unwielding of this sort of information. I didn't find anything helpful regarding Cisco's Catalyst line, and their other small business products seemed to be 4 LAGs max (?I hope I'm mistaken). Dell's products in the fathomably affordable range seemed to give up to 8 per chassis. Furthermore, both vendors' managed 48 port gigabit switches seem pretty pricey, even used. On the other hand, I wasn't even looking and happened to stumble across a table on Juniper's site that showed the number of LAGs supported by each of their product lines. Even the bottom end models will give you 32 LAGs in a box, and I spotted several 48 port options on eBay for around $600 (like this). Juniper is a good brand, so the EX2200-48T-4G looks like a perfect option to me. It will be flexible, reliable, and allow for future expansion, all for under a grand.

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Ah, er, maybe this is getting a bit overboard for your needs :)

I love how Freq Labs jumps right into link aggregation before a budget pops up... I will say this... a 1+GB CAD file is monstrous! Are you modeling furnished architecture with individually mated cushions for the couches and nut and bolt assemblies for the office desks? I've done some super-massive 500+ part assemblies for Volkswagon fixtures in Solidworks and never gone over 200MB... anyways...

You have a few options... you can build a decent fileserver, or a really nice NAS... and then evaluate what bottlenecks you're getting through the cabling and switch... but I can't really make any recommendations without a budget...

You'll also want to look into what switch/cabling you're currently using (I'd imagine it's at least CAT5e, but it's worth checking) and make sure there's no firewalls in between the users... (if so, need  to know what exactly)

I'm very confident I could design something that would be more than pleasing to your company assuming you're handy enough to build it and hook it up, but I need a little more information to do so...

I imagine defining a budget isn't always exactly straightforward. If you're working for someone else and they're the one with the checkbook, it might not even be possible to ask how much you're allowed to spend. I assume we're definitely aiming for under four zeros. Really I'd expect a respectable organization that has 12 AutoCAD seats to be able to swing a $5-6k investment in their network infrastructure. But until you actually chime in with some idea of the actual numbers you're aiming for, my speculations won't get us very far.

You'd be VERY surprised with what some small businesses think they can get away with... ultimately most small businesses aren't looking for nirvana, but instead something to shut up the bitching

I'd almost guarentee that 5-6k to this company would be not a no, but a "HELL NO"... I'd be ecstatic with a $2500 budget... and I could do something that's respectable for that... less than that and I might pass on designing the system for free, as I normally charge $300 in consultant fees for just to say hi and see the problem...

Well considering a single license for AutoCAD is over $4k at the cheapest and gets more expensive from there (I'm taking the position that subscriptions will end up costing more), not to mention Revit and ArcGIS, and the cost of the person in the seat is at least an order of magnitude higher than that per year, multiplying that by 12 should start to motivate a business to make purchasing decisions that maximize the availability, efficiency, and productivity of those investments. Less time fighting the network means more time that can go towards lucrative operations. Of course, I'm not meaning to suggest that it would be an easy pitch, just that it shouldn't be unreasonable to make that sort of investment.

Back in reality land... if all that's within your grasp is a band-aid, you should at least be sure of where to put it. Do some real troubleshooting to pinpoint exactly what the bottleneck is. Is the NAS always slow, or just when a large number of clients are accessing it? What was different about the previous server, and why did they choose to get a new one? How full are the disks in the NAS? Figure over about 50% capacity the performance will start to fall off. I would be inclined to suspect the problem is in the NAS just because the issue sounds to be initial latency rather than dropped connections or slow transfers, but it won't hurt to be absolutely sure that a beefier NAS will make the needed difference. Once the actual cause of the problem is identified, you'll be in a much better position to decide what the fix needs to be.

Then you can have the expensive network upgrade for plan A, and the cheap fix for plan B. :) Plan C would be "fiber optics everywhere." The c is for the speed of light, or "costs too much," or "crazy" I guess.

 

I built them a windows server with e3 xeon and 32 Gb of ram. I pitched an ix system but they were not into having FreeNas or NAS period because of their prior experience (system had 256mb ddr3). There was no use in my explanation of the new system. I also built quite a badass system for $1600 that included 2xgb intelpro nic OS SSD and 3 WDSE drives. I will say the company who makes the ix systems was very helpful and called me within 20 minutes of my email to answer my questions and build a proposal.