When you're on a budget, or are trying to feed a family of 5 or whatever, this is not always an option. More often than not it wouldn't be because you need to cut other expenses by quite a bit...
5 month old necropost even though it gets bumped every so often- This is considered timeless though, so no lock.
I actually enjoyed reading this timeless thread. :) Love the .gif you chose by the way. lol
I had to take that job or starve, the wife was pregnant and there was no work for my trade. We all have to do a deal with the devil at some stage.
It is by no means out of convenience that I support animal rights. I know to well how sentient all animals are.
The following:
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/factory-farming/cows/hidden-lives-cows/
http://thecollegianur.com/2010/09/09/animal-intelligence-what-they-know-and-you-don%E2%80%99t/13120/
http://animals.pawnation.com/smart-cattle-3300.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-inner-lives-animals/201008/it-s-time-magazine-respect-cows
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/free-range-organic-meat-myth/
I'm not out to 'change' you. If you want to eat meat fine, I have no problem with that as it's your choice. Your right as a human.
Bovine's as with all domesticated livestock are very intelligent, able to problem solve and maintain high levels of social order. More so than many of the zombie blobs that walk the aisles of today's supermarkets.
'Free range' is a wanky coined term that is over used, mis-used and most of the time is just a label with no accreditation to back it up. As with 'organic', 'bio dynamic' etc. Clever marketing.
The very same cruel acts that happen to many animals regardless if they have been in small pens or running around in a paddock (free range). The barbaric slaughtering is still commonplace. Albeit some farmers do actually have a conscience and compassion and make sure their death is as painless and complete as possible, a scarce trait in today's market.
Insulting you??? please explain. My point to you was that your claim of morality not being a valid issue for one to change their eating lifestyle is very moot-able.
As for your attack at my intelligence, that's cool. Yeah I'm doing computer science and doing really well as a matter of fact.
I'll fight for equal animal rights as best I can until the day I die. I also hope your failing hope for humanity turns around champ. Life's too short and amazing to have that outlook.
Peace.
Are you as active on the human rights thing? Are you trying to do something against human cruelty?
If not, what makes these animals deserve it more than humans? If so, carry on.
Yes, of course NhaMeh. Persecution, cruelty and unjustness of any kind against any being whether human or animal should be dealt with and not tolerated. We all share this planet as equal parts of an amazing multifaceted global organism.
Well what you have linked me hasn't shown me anything i had not already known, other than the PETA stuff i refuse to look at there stuff on principal alone. but still that does not change what i have said, they will go extinct, it's just how the Darwinian world goes.
As for whole miss use of the term free range in the US and the outback of Australia it may be true, i don't know every in and out of the agricultural practice in those place's. but in the UK and EU i do. I know how we and the EU differ as well. given my first hand experience and education with agriculture and food i know what to look for. ultimately comes down to the individual to do there research and get to know there food as everywhere is different.
As for insulting me yes, coining the term hardcore carnivore suggesting I have no regard for other people's opinion on the subject witch is disingenuous at best, ultimately it's an attack on my character. Also suggesting i am naive to think different from you self that's straight up insulting consider you know my opinion is different from your own. these kinds of remarks have no place in a debate as they are de-constructive and only discredits the person saying making them
As for your intelligence I think we can all agree that it's mostly present and functioning as intended for the most part, my critique was specific being your intellect, witch is a component of one's intelligence. a display of strong intellect would mean you have shown the ability to reason and understand objective points of view be it abstract or real world and in this case you have fail to do so. being a well rounded intelligent person is more than mere fact checking it also means being able to hold one's own in a forum of debate and intellect is essential to that. In other words you need practice on your debating skills, especially if you want people to take you seriously that are not so easily swayed.
As for my failing hope in humanity we will just have to wait and see.
I eat what I like, no matter how healthy or not,
That does not mean I go to mcdonalds all day (I go there like every half year, so I guess thats ok)
I used to be a vegetarian my ex girlfriend was one so i lived the lifestyle for a while. I caved when I went to party and they where grilling some amazing food's. I liked being a vegetarian it made me feel good about myself. I did change and learn from being a vegetarian. I dont eat ground beef it is really bad for you. I do enjoy chicken and i eat turkey.
i eat what I want. I could care less about heating something on health factor, or a food having "feelings", or anything else
I am a vegan almost purely for health reasons. I am going to ramble here
Common myth is that vegans don't get enough protein. False, every whole plant food has all essential amino acids for the human health.
Realistically humans are in no way shape or form supposed to be consuming meat or dairy as adults.In fact our body has trouble digesting vegetables. We are designed to eat fruits and basically only fruits.
If you look at other animals similar to us, or the species that we are evolved from our coloric intake should be about 80% carbs, 10% fat, and 10% protein.
Myth number 2, eatting a high sugar diet will give u diabetes. False, sugar passes through the blood stream in a matter of minutes. The reason why sugar is blamed for diabetes is because when most diabetics eat sugar, it is with a high fat diet. Fat takes over 24 hours to pass in and out of the blood stream (i am not going to go into all of the science behind what i am talking about because it would take to long) this fat basically blocks the sugar for getting out of the bloodstream and therefor that causes your blood sugar to raise. I have 2 personal friends that have cured their diabetes purely by eating a fruitarian life style.
Other examples of why we are not carnivores. On average cats digestive systems stomach acid is 1000 times more acidic than that of humans, in some cases 10,000 times. In fact if humans were meant to be carnivores, we would have the lowest stomach acidity rate of any known carnivore.
How we see meat vs how carnivores see meat. Oh look there is roadkill on the side of the road, thats sick and probably diseased, in no way shape or form do our mouths water at the sight of roadkill. But carnivores do.
Dairy is good for strong bones. False. Look at all the places that don't consume dairy. They have the lowest rate of osteoporosis, so much so that in some places it is nonexistant. No other animal consumes the milk of another animal besides humans.
Like i said earlier, I am vegan for health reasons (I am a sub 14:30 5k runner), I do love cheese don't get me wrong, but there is nothing that anyone can say that would make me believe we are made to eat meat and dairy. I did a horrible job going into detail but a good read would be the 80/10/10 diet where you can get the information detailed out for you. Also read some of Dr. McDougals findings.
yeah, just no. how about some hard data to back those claims up.
Just gonna keep eating this steak. Yummy animals. Im with Pawmaniac
Like I said read the books, they go into detail with the hard evidence you are looking for.
Are they pier reviewed?
Sure are
proof? if anything i think that much is worth proofing.
If I remember, I shall bust out the book when I get home. I am sure many are not peer reviewed, but I know there are some that are. I'll get back to you.
I know there is no way of explaining my position without sounding at least a bit "preachy". So for that, I apologise in advance.
Essentially, all that matters to me is whether a living being has the capacity to suffer or, if you want to put it another way, the capacity to live a good life, however that happens to be defined for any particular living being. Even microorganisms. If it can be proven that they have the capacity to suffer then they too should be given moral consideration to the extent that they are able to suffer. My perspecitve on life is that we should try to reduce the overall amount of suffering in this world. And whether that suffering is happening inside a human being or any non-human animal is irrelevent to me. To deny that would speciesism.
"If the animal is small it doesn't become equal?"
It is true, however, that by the above logic I do worry more about the suffering of a pig more than I worry about micro-organisms or even insects. Because as far as I can judge a pig has a higher capacity to suffer. They are extremely intelligent and emotional creatures. If I was ever presented with evidence to the contrary then I would have no reason to give moral consideration to them.
For me, it was gaining an understanding of evolution and our places in the cosmos from reading various books that pushed me into becoming a vegan. I just couldn't justify discounting the needs of non-human animals purely because eating their flesh tastes nice.
I hope that clears up my position a little bit.
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I was an omvivore for most of my life then slowly I started to become more mindful towards living things including plants. I took me several years to get off meat but it was not hard at first I ditched fast food, then mystery meat and after a while I only ate ethically raised cattle/animals. After that I got into fish and ate seafood for a long time and even then started to work my way towards less "sentient" creatures such as shrimp etc (did you know tuna's have schools for their young where there are teachers and such where they learn stuff?). At the moment I am lacto-ovo which is slowly becoming an issue for me but for now I am not ready yet to go full vegan I still want my Earl Gray to have a little cream or milk occasionally and still have omelets though I am aware that under normal circumstances dairy animals would not have to produce as much as we have bred them to and same goes for chickens...birds in the wild do not have to lay eggs as much as we have made them to. All in all its a journey and every step counts if you just do few modifications that lessen the load on the environment and are ethically better that is already a big deal.
I implemented it by doing sustainable small changes while being aware that every change might be the last one I'd be able to make but trying to go about this without putting too much pressure on myself. In actuality it took around 2 years to get most of the meat out of my diet and oddly I do not miss it at all. Just recently I had a bite of blood-sausage during holidays (local tradition) with some "sauerkraut" and well it did not impress me nor did I throw up and die but it just reinforced my position that yes I could eat meat again but there is no need I feel lighter I get to experiment with different approaches and my health is good. Going vegetarian did not leave me weaker compared to mixed if anything I became quicker and snappier (I did some brazilian jiu jitsu but at the moment I'm on a break because of an injury I got on the mats). Now I'm still a man enough to rip some whiskey which I believe might be my spirit-drink oh the old ones what I would give for a bottle of McCallan 25 rightnow :P
Thats right, I dug in your graves and practiced necromancy on a thread :P
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