So being a pawn of the global oil machine I guess your respect for animals is at your convenience? The harm done to animals through the oil industry is criminal. I find it interesting that you see it right to talk about respect for living things and then find employment in possibly the most destructive industry on planet earth eh?
I truly hope you no longer find employment in gutting the earth of it's resources.
Bingo. Eliminate industrial farming and you fix a big problem with pollution and E.Coli in our food supply.
I like your post, especially the part about being equals with animals.
They also think this, especially the Grizzly bear gritting it's canines against your skull as it bites down. :-)
And I'm sorry, but your home is FULL of animal products, whether you realize it or not. Microorganisms (ANIMALS) live on ALL foods and surfaces. When you eat your vegan food you are eating MILLIONS of tiny animals.
How do vegans reconcile killing and eating microorganisms? If the animal is small it doesn't become equal?
I hear some hypocrisy comin'.
what does inb4 mean? I've seen it from time to time...
It means literally in before.
I guess I still don't understand it's meaning or purpose of use? Am I missing context?
Personally I think vegetarians are a weak persons vegan. Vegan's normally argue that meats isn't needed to consumed by people, not just because they don't believe in killing animals, but also because its 'unhealth' which is kind of true. Why then do vegetarians feel the need to eat virtually liquid meat, or enslave animals to steal their eggs,honey,milk ect, when they don't eat rotting meat because it is morally wrong to them? Why not just take the extra step and go vegan? Change my view
*facepalm* no I'm not changing anything, go read a book.
I've been a Vegetarian of over a year now, just last week I went vegan and I haven't found the transition that difficult at all. I chose this lifestyle for I have considerable care for life. I guess it took me 22 years to actually take notice of what I was consuming and my own intent of learning where everything comes from and how its treated. You could say everyone knows where your meat comes from but I had chosen to be ignorant in the passed of the suffering that's cased.
so if you don't like the mistreatment of animals why not just go free range and local?
I've always been buying free range and local when I had ate meat, I prefer a better quality of life for all. There are many reasons for the way I've chosen to live, I'd rather not bore you with them.
Well your vegan now so if your reasons are for better quality of life, then how does eating free range eggs and milk for example effect the quality of life of other animals?
Well for one if you choose to drink milk from wherever that its sourced from the cow will be forced into pregnancy and then once the calf is born its either taken away or kill usually if its male. There is no respect in that and the mother is used to supply milk everyday and I couldn't say but I'd think that was very uncomfortable to for her to have her nipples sucked dry from a vacuum. So its slavery but we as humans cant relate it to that because we think we are the dominant spices to rule all. I have not problem with a person for eating meat or wearing it, but I prefer to cause as less problems as possible.
you do realize that a cow produces milk for up to 3 years after pregnancy right? Also the milking process done with machine or man is only cruel if hygiene standards are not met, combined with poor diet and environmental conditions, the milking it self is not cruel in anyway. Yes calf's are killed after birth but not always it depends purpose and the off springs health, is it cruel in one sense yes. but have you considered the fact that we have selectively breed cattle for so many generations for food that they are no longer independent like turkey also. if you were to let them out into the wild they would become extinct. so really witch is more evil breeding them humanly as possible for food produce or let them go extinct? my point being your morality argument is a bit miss guided there are many good reasons for going vegetarian/vegan but morality is just one that isn't a good one when looking at the whole picture.
I'm aware of the points you made.
Fair enough.
By microbes are you talking about bacteria? They're not animals.
Morality not a good enough reason??? wtf? Dairy cows will produce milk after the birth of their first calf until such time that they dry up. That can be anywhere from 7 months to many many years. As long as there is mechanical or manual milking everyday.
Have you ever been to a mass feed lot? slaughterhouse? meat processing plant? seen what goes on with live exports? what happens in some milking lots? Only a very naive soul would say these environments aren't a basis for a moral judgement on what is fair treatment of such sentient animals.
As for letting them out into the wild and going extinct > obviously dont understand how hardy and adaptable bovine species are buddy. I've worked in the middle of the Australian desert, nothing but salt bush and hot sand around. Plenty of healthy looking cows though.
I get it, your a hardcore carnivore, thats fine - your profile has 'bacon town...' whatever.
stunningtoaster good on ya champ, do what is best for you.
lol looks like i struck a nerve, I'm hardly a hardcore carnivore. yeah i have been actually, iv worked on farms for your information and consequently have had to deal with food production facilities. you have also applied my statement in a very general context assuming that i think all kinds of farming is okay when in reality i have already provided a pretext in my previous comments by stating that free range is the preferred option, so how about not twisting my words cause your sensitivities have been hurt. yeah it's fine there is nothing immoral about free range animal farming so deal with it.
As for them going extinct yeah they would, you seem to have overlooked the fact that there is many breeds of cow! most of them have been bread for food, not for physical prowess or survival instincts witch they lack and have had bread out of em over many generations witch just makes em an easy meal for any cold blooded creature, also WE have cultivated them and WE have kept them safe. by artificial insemination or encouraged breeding methods, that's why there is so many of em! these things are more docile than fucking pandas! they are not the horny mass breeding type that's for sure and most importantly by hunting most of there predators to the brink of extinction, so don't tell me that they are adaptable cause that is just pure rubbish, your so called example is weak real weak just cause the herbivore was able to find a source of food in an environment with hardly any predators in it is not adapting, it's just not. as they still are exempt from natural selection for reasons iv mentioned above. all in all morality is a non-issue when it come's to the consumption of meat. like i said if you got an issue with it just go free range but don't come at people like me that know better and be all like that's why I'm vegetarian/vegan cause it's just bullshit. seriously you want to challenge me then fine but next time you better bring something tangible to the table that's verifiable through hard science like what i have and try and leave your emotional appeal out of it, it just clouds your judgements.
I'll tell ya why I'm from bacon town, because i come from a little town in the countryside called Calne and we were the first to mass produce cured bacon in the world at the Harris bacon factory as pig farming is a large part of our local history. I like bacon so what? I also know a lot about my local history and prefer the local bacon.
On a side note: if i was a hardcore carnivore i would be against people being vegetarian/vegan all together witch I'm not as iv already stated, I don't take kindly to being associated with irrational fundamentalists, considering your arguments ride on insults and De-humanization with no reasonable explanations you automatically forfeited your position in having anything worth listening too, for someone who is a claimed to be university student in computer science i am disappointed to say the least if this is the caliber of intellect that education is churning out these day's then my forever failing hope in humanity is ever more justified.
What's wrong with horse? I like horse steak. There's horse in our salami as well iirc. Nothing wrong with horse.
I mostly eat meat and fast food, barely any vegetables. Entirely because I'm lazy and hate spending more time cooking than eating. And I'm living alone so fast food and meat are easier and around the same cost or cheaper than proper meals (in my experience, vegetables don't survive very well in refrigerators, back when I lived at home we had to throw out some veggies after a day or two because they already gone bad oO but I've been told this isn't necessarily the case and more often than not it would not be the case at all, still too lazy though). If I had someone else to cook for I wouldn't mind spending so much time on making a meal.
The freezer part of my fridge isn't working well enough (ice cream melts in a day) otherwise I might be willing to try out making meals for a few days all at once.
I don't hate vegetables, I just don't buy or prepare them. The few times I have, I have to throw half of it away because it went bad by the second meal (which may end up being 3 days later). So I find it easier to just not bother and it eventually saves me money (constantly throwing away stuff is a loss of money, even if the other things I buy are possibly a bit more expensive, I don't have to throw it away so it's not lost).
I know quite a number of vegetarians (a lot of them are straight edge as well) and have no issues with their habbits. I don't mind eating vegetarian, I found there are tasty things in there, I don't mind tofu either. The only thing that I do hate is if you go to a dinner at someones home and the vegetarian in the group says "I'm not eating that, I'm a vegetarian" and then complains about the lack of veggie options. You could've told them beforehand. I only seen that happen only once though. OTOH, if you're hosting a dinner or something with food, and you don't offer a veggie option when you know vegetarians are coming, you're equally at fault.
The arguments that a veggie diet makes you weak and frail is also a lot of bull. That happens when you don't do it properly and make sure you get all the stuff you need (vitamins and what have you) through replacement foods (screw pills and powders, useless...) The same goes for every diet really... My messed up diet misses a lot of things and I do notice that, but again, laziness.
Being vegan just seems like more of a hassle than it's worth to me... But vegans usually aren't vegan "for funzies" and seem to generally know what they're doing foodwise.
Going vegetarian because you care about animals. I don't know... I doubt less animals get slaughtered or mistreated because you decided to eat no meat. The amount of meat on the garbage pile just gets a bit bigger. I don't think it makes enough of a difference to justify it, but just not being an active part in it is probably enough for them. I have no numbers to back any of this up, it's just what I think.
Vegetarians that don't eat meat because animals, but eat fish, are just stupid. Until now (Pistols post) I didn't know there was a specific term for it, but I'm glad there is, because it obviously is not vegetarian. I'm perfectly fine with people eating only fish as meat, but not if they call themselves vegetarian. Words used to mean something at some point you know.
There's one thing that bothers me though. As I said if you're cooking for a group and that group includes (a) vegetarian(s) you should include proper veggie options. But how about the other way around... If you're a vegetarian and are cooking for a group of people that aren't all vegetarian, should you include a fish/meat option? According to my logic, yes... Though I wouldn't be angry if it didn't happen, I can understand. But that's not really nice is it... You basically denying me to eat meat. I don't deny you to eat veggies. I'm a bit torn on this one, curious what others might think of it.