Any total gurus on machine 'snappyness', extreme 'general desktop use' / browsing

All I could think of is this skit:

ignore the title, the hilarity of the video surpasses any offence it could possibly cause.

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I would go with a B650I Aorus Ultra for the three m.2 slots, a 7950X over a 7950X3D and a 64 GB RAM kit but that is mostly because paying $80 extra for not having to care about RAM is worth it.

As for tabs, well… Recently lost my 1500 tabs over two firefox instances (750 tabs in one, 800+ in the other). After kicking myself for losing them, I find it refreshing I only have a dozen tabs open now. :grin:

Just to be clear with you, there’s a lot of people like me who probably wish they weren’t this way but can’t help it.

I am constantly experimenting and researching things to learn, play with, buy, try, help myself, help others, all kinds of things. Constantly and due to my nature many of my projects get stopped before they start, because I never finish the research or I move on to the next topic. It’s a classic adhd / autism style trait to be honest.

Why buy a new phone, when you can buy the BEST new phone, wanna build a NAS? which is the best method, etc - like that but always trying new cool things.

So let me give you a short example of how I’d research, here’s some google strings of late.

“7950x3d” “windows” “Desktop” “general use” “benchmarks”
(1 search, middle click at least 3 to 10 hits which look relevant, so they load in the background)

Next search.
“7950x3d” “performance” “Chrome” “tabs” “cache” “helps”
(Another search, middle click 5 to 10 relevant looking links)

Then I’d refine the searches , add words, subtract words etc then MORE middle clicks for more tabs…I’m very, very good at googling!

Anyhow, I am sure you get the idea - and that’s just 1 topic…

Thing is you switch to the tabs you opened and if you’re an experienced internet browsing person (I’m sure we all are here) you can spot a worthless site in seconds, CTRL-W - gone, next one you’d opened? worthless? CTRL-W gone - etc

See even more useful links off one of the pages you’d just found? middle click, middle click, middle click etc.

There’s tabs open for proxmox, for plex, for pikvm, for SFF power supplies, for new cell phones, for windows issues I’ve had, tabs for docker containers I’ve been meaning to do, 15 tabs open to remember to go back and fix up some dynamic dns stuff etc.

It’s a problem man, I don’t want it, but I got - but to get to the point

The BEST way for me to reduce the tabs, is have the browser SNAPPY AND RESPONSIVE and I mean stupid fast - I have 2x 4k displays and another 1080p and man yeah the quicker my PC the quicker, when I’m in the mood to clean up, I can close some tabs off.

Anyhow I hope this answers, I’m sure a couple of you here may relate and the rest who think differently will think “but why not just…!!! wha… just don’t!” - it doesn’t work like that for my brain. Man it’d be sweet if it did, but alas, no :confused:

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I have a little weird fascination and …unsubstantiated hope that somehow an X3D is “magic sauce” for browsing, so this is why I’m leaning towards it.

MikroTik hEX S (or similar) running the DNS with a PiHole being its primary source is damn snappy for DNS since the Mikrotik can cache, so after a while the network has its one-stop-shop there.

There is no will be little no none meaningful responsiveness increase for general desktop usage from x3d alone.

I personally didn’t observe anything meaningful when going from i7 8700k → r9 7950x3d platform.

There are small annoyances like random input lags during system startup and higher load, but that might be windows fault or related to amd chipset and drivers.

Very long ddr5 training times are also annoying, but they might be improved in next gen cpu and boards.

Pure performance and perf/watt is absolutely bonkers though. I had personal reasons and impatience going for 7950x3d, but 7800x3d is more than enough for pretty much any enthusiast.

I’m not sure if it is a magic sauce for browsing. I do believe that it helps if the computer is doing multiple tasks at the same time that are inefficient with memory. I’ve noticed with my 5800x3d for example that it was snappier alt-tabbing while a game is running for example. Because it can cache more. But it does not help at all with FEA or CAD, because they are optimized around loading the cpu without depending on cache.

I do think you can check if cores are loaded up by using task manager while the computer is slowing down. If you have 20-30% load then it is a single threaded limitation or just a different bottleneck.

I would go for a 7800x3d if the cache is that useful. A 7950x3d will not benefit that much because windows will divert everything it thinks needs clock speeds to the non x3d chiplet.
On the other hand, if cache in an issue but cpu threads are too, then just a 7950x (non 3d) will also help, it still has a bunch of L3 cache that is split between each chiplet of 8 cores. The question is of course if the scheduler will work appropriately.

You should also have a look at process explorer, there you can split out which processes are taking the longest. Windows defender and onedrive will really slow down file access. (this is why i don’t have my documents or desktop folders on onedrive. Because applications like saving things in documents and those applications get slowed down by onedrive)

The other thing that can reduce “snappyness” is driver issues and DPC. If you check out notebookcheck.net, they test DPC timings on every laptop. Some laptops have very good scores and others don’t. (my laptop is the aero 15, which is 2 years old now.

Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks This application can check for latency and will also tell you which application or driver is causing issues.

It would be nice if we could test on level1techs between people on the latency effect with x3d chips and non x3d chips.
My laptop (11800H) performs well with just some browsers and music. But this latency will go up significantly while loading the pc.

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And this is 7950x3d workstation for reference, normal desktop use with 300 tabs:

And this is during P95 blend torture test:

All user input visibly freezes from time to time. Thankfully real world usage never approaches this level of load. Not even closely.

I wonder why ryzen behaves so much worse under worse load than older intel based system. I don’t remember ever encountering this much visible latency, hitching or whatever is the correct term.

EDIT:
I have played around with various timer tweaks and registry edits, ref. here.
None of them had significant impact, so I did disable onboard realtek 2,5 NIC and put in intel x550-t2 card.

Idle latency was cut in half


Interrupt during torture test are gone also

Nvidia is still problematic though.
Suprisingly even when display is driven by amd igpu:

Somewhere in Task Manager, there should be a way to monitor disk activity. I’d keep a close watch on that with all those tabs open, and see if disk activity spikes when your snappiness starts to deplete.
It may well be that you just really need your pagefile and browser cache data on something really fast, like an Optane drive. Maybe even a dedicated one specifically for it.

Unrelated to windows and quite anecdotally, going from NAND flash for a swap file in Linux to a larger Optane swap file, I went from the entire system lagging out and sometimes hard crashing whenever Krita started running out of memory, to actually not even noticing when I’m 40GB into swap.

I am a lucky one with not having to worry about my latancymon numbers. Mine are very low and use a onboard realtek nic.

Going back to the original poster…he will just have to live within better means and not have 300 plus tabs open. When I am done with a couple tabs I close them all and always shut down my machine at night.

It will be hard at the start just like anything else but in the end it will be much better.

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Ouch, what ssd drive did you have installed? Last time I seen that was on crappy proprietary msata in early asus zenbooks (good old UX31A).

That shit had no right describing itself as “SSD”. Also msata interface with proprietary 18-pin pinout? WTF asus, how the hell did you convince your supplier to make that.

In the end only two compatible drives existed, Sandisk U100 and ADATA XM11. I dont remeber which one I had, but it was choice between bad and complete trash.

Shame I learned that afterwards. And there, my journey into depths of IT began …

I echo the comment about Optane. I’ve bought a few 118 GB NVMe devices for boot/system drives, which is more than enough for Linux. I have no idea how much disk a typical Windows install consumes these days. That’s also where your browser cache should live. I’d keep your games installed on a separate SSD along with whatever media.

Having your browser on a portable drive is a recipe for slowness if the cache is also stored there.

This is what I did for my two work/office PCs. One is an upgraded Dell Precision SFF with an i7-8700/4x8GB-2666/RX6400. Windows load times aren’t necessarily faster, but you can open everything at once and still use the system without major stuttering. I don’t think I noticed any other improvements that a Gen3 NVME couldn’t also provide for much cheaper, but I also only run about a dozen firefox tabs across three monitors.

I am using separate SATA SSDs for my game drive and video/storage and with Win10 the Optane averages about 60GB out of 109 total. You do have to keep any eye on disk cleanups and watch for any unintended bloat or that 40ish gigs of free space can potentially disappear somewhat quickly.

My other office PC is a 9th gen HP Elitedesk, but my upgrade plans for it failed when 9900/Ks and A2000s refused to drop below $200USD. Right now it has a placeholder Pentium and 2x8GB-2400T. Despite that desktop/browser use is surprisingly acceptable.

  • optane is an absolute must and where most of your cash should go
    *7950x3d, tonnes of cache and ignore the diatribe about gaming
  • 6000mt/s ram seems to be the sweet spot with my amd 7000 rig

optane is a must.

They are extremely low latency, far faster for random reads than flash, and they don’t degrade when you fill them up. They will also last forever

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970 pro. A part of it is likely the size of the swap(16gb), but even spilling a little into it, Krita was noticeably less usable.
This is, of course, with 64gb of system memory, working in high resolution and color depth.
With 64gb of swap on optane, I had no more problems, but I bumped it up to 96gb just to be on the safe side, with a dedicated xfs partition for krita’s self-managed cache that it doesn’t manage properly anyway.

It’s really a darn shame we can’t all zop up the surplus of DDR3/4 registered memory, slap it in a PCIE card, and have ramdisks for cache instead. The idea of a page file is pretty antiquated imo. There’s no reason it should need to be non-volatile.

You guys are making me want to buy optane even though I think I am already happy with my NVME SSD.

These Optanes, do they work better with an Intel board or it is independent of it and can work just as well on AM4/AM5?

Intel optane drives work fine on amd system, there just nvme drives, its only the caching software that is speicifc. Intel ssds will work on amd systems. Also that optane drive will be much faster in mosttasks, the read write speeds are often pretty unrealistic.

This was just a quick search but I have been looking into them more lately just for research purposes

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I’ve been checking on my 5800x3d system. It was sitting pretty high at 400us but resolved to around 30 idle by just installing the 2024 chipset drivers (x570). That is how important drivers are.
This is idle

This is during a Prime 95 Blend test on all threads (16)
Interrupt is slightly higher on average and everything on the computer becomes a little slower.

I’ve done some testing with larger or smaller prime sizes, but there is no real conclusion to draw from that.

Right now i tried to load 399 tabs in firefox to test how that works. Latency is still ok, but i’m using quite a bit of memory and it is spilling over into virtual memory. For this many tabs 64gb of memory is going to help quite a bit. The pc is still snappy though, switching tabs is going fine

2024-01-20 09_30_18-


Latencymon also gives pagefaults, where memory on the disk is hit. here it is 10.000 pagefaults over 3:30 minutes.

Now for the same test on a 11800H, it has the same single thread speed as the 5800x3d, but less multi threaded (25% less) and 24MB L3 cache compared to 96MB. This computer does have 64gb of ram. Ram is the same speed for both computers.

Running prime 95 on all cores increases the latency more

Running on 2 threads has slightly less effect, peaking at 500. A bit hard to say anything conclusive about this.

Lets move on to 399 tabs.
I thought 64gb of memory would come into play, but it seems to use virtual memory anyway.

If i look at latencymon however, it seems that there are much less firefox pagefaults. (also disable background uwp apps, for some reason phoneexperiencehost was causing issues. :pensive: Windows)

System has a lot of pagefaults, but that is probably a driver thing. Everything still felt pretty snappy, i do think the extra memory helps, but it’s still hard to draw conclusions.



If i would have to choose, i would not go for a x3d chip for just browsing, the only reason to take it is if you are running applications in the background that make use of cache or play games. But this is still really unsubstantiated. I’m curious to see comparison with others.

Instead of that, get extra ram and the fastest ssd you can get. Chrome is a little more hungry for ram.
the 7950x is overkill but if you can make use of the threads, then you should go for it. the x3d is kind of limited to a master of none type of situations, because the 7800x3d is definitely better.

I’m wondering of @wendell looked into this “snappyness”.

@disk_diddler maybe you can make a bookmark folder set of your tabs, so we can set up a little like a benchmark. Where a computer has to load all the tabs at once.

they are just a U.2 block device

use like any other