An open Letter to anyone from Dell that will read this - Bringing RANT30 Back!

Hardware Hub Laptops & Netbooks
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Rant 30, Let’s bring it back and Let’s begin!

TLDR: Dell is price gouging to the extent of thousands of dollars, only offering certain products to select markets, and have shocking sales and support practices, I really wanted to buy their product, but now … well I guess they just need to fix their SH*& before I do.

Dear Dell

Let me begin by acknowledging that I am picky when it comes to large financial decisions, this is on me, and no one else. So my decision to purchase a new laptop is, as you can imagine, not an easy one. Sometimes I will put up with something just because I don’t want to spend the money, just to put things into context. Now for the Rant.

I currently have a Microsoft Surface Book 2, I only have this unit as the original Surface Book that I purchased broke, it had some severe limitations in terms of quality and reliability. Constant blue screens because the CPU looses connection to the base is but one of my problems, also the rubber feet on the bottom of the chassis have fallen off because the adhesive is weak, and the keyboard sometimes lags and does not register the “s”, “r” or “t” keys some times (this keyboard issue is happening as I type now …). So when I took it to my local Microsoft store they replaced it, but with the newer model as mine was obsolete. I have the same issues with this one, I suspect it’s just the nature of a device that try’s be everything. In saying this, it’s not the quality that I would expect from a device positioned as premium, and for the price that I paid for it.

So I am in the market for a new laptop. I am looking for a device with performance (after all I am an enthusiast), ability to play some games at decent settings while I am away for work, what I would call key features in a modern laptop (fingerprint reader/Windows Hello, great keyboard and track pad), build quality that can withstand being in my backpack, long battery life, good support from Linux, decent/adequate IO, and looks.

I have been looking for a little while now and nothing really caught my eye except for the MacBook Pro 16". I am not buying this laptop for a number of reasons, one of which being absolutely everything is soldered to the Logic/Motherboard, not good for repair-ability/upgrade-ability, and the price.

Then earlier this week I gazed my eyes upon a click-bait titled video from Linus Tech Tips, “The Best Windows Laptop. Period. - Dell XPS 15 & 17 Review”. “Ok” I thought, “lets give this Canadian prepubescent a chance to explain himself”. So I did, and … these laptops certainly fit the bill for what I am looking for. They really do tick all of my boxes.

Sleek, modern, all the features, Thunderbolt and USB-C for IO, by all reports above average (hinting on the better side) build quality (unless you get one that has slipped through QC), and an RTX 2060 for my occasional on the road gaming sessions. Whilst I would prefer an AMD CPU I can live without one and go with Intel for now.

So at this point, I’ve watched some more review videos, read some articles, everything looks good, I check Australian Pricing, and instantly receive a rude shock emanating from the wallet in my back pocket. It’s now that I check around again and look at other pricing for similar spec’d machines to help set my expectations, and yes, there is a price premium here. No matter, if it can live up to the hype, and I can keep using it for 4 years or so the investment will be worth it.

So I start to spec out a machine on Dell’s website, this is where the problems start. It would appear as though the RTX 2060 is missing in action. As I attempt to find out why a “wild notification appears” on the right side of the browser, “Need help? We’re here for you. Click to chat” so I do and end up instant messaging someone somewhere in the world where (and now I am guessing) English appeared to be their second language. Now there is nothing wrong with this, it just makes it slightly harder to converse over text. I explain that I am looking for a new laptop and I am looking at the XPS Line, I ask a few starting question about is it right for me etc. then move onto some more tricky questions, I ask the sales representative to justify to me why I should pay a nearly AUD$1,000 premium for this computer over their rivals similarly appointed machine, to which the reply I received was:

“Ours is better”. (Note I am paraphrasing for effect)

“Why is it better? There are others for less price, like the Asus G14” I probed,
“It just is, We have Quality, You cannot compare this to us, this is gaming computer not Dell” Dell replied.

I tried to gain more from this person as I have not seen this product in person, so I am relying on them to Quote/Unquote Sell it to me. They didn’t even reply instead ending the chat…

How Rude. - credit: Jar Jar

I thought; fine I’ll attempt to look at one in a local retail store to get my bearings. So I do, and I fall for the fit, finish, and sleek lines of the XPS line.

Now before I buy a unit, I still have questions that need answering, like what cloak of invisibility has this GPU disappeared under? I enter the chat once more, going straight for the jugular this time. I came armed and prepared with research from Dell’s US and GBR sites.

I receive a welcome how can we help you, and I ask about the GPU option. This is where their sales team really start to drop the ball. No paraphrasing this time (names removed for privacy):

Dell: “XPS doesn’t have”
Customer: “sorry?”
Dell: “XPS doesn’t have RTX 2060”
Customer: “it does if you live in America or England”
Customer: “link to Dell’s US site”
Dell: “in AU we do not have”
Customer: “why is that?”
Dell: “we do not have in AU”
Customer: “but why? why is it available in America and England but not in AU?”
Customer: “and if you can’t answer that, can you tell me if it will be available and when?”
Dell: “Customer in AU we do not have that demand”
Dell: “and availability as of now no information”
Session Ended

Again the Dell representative ended the chat on me. Not only did the representative not answer my questions but was also rude once again by ending the chat. I attempted to keep my questions short due to the shortness and clear grammatical errors of the representative, only in an attempt to avoid confusion, I was not trying to be rude and did not take their short responses as rude I was just expecting more from a sales representative.

Never the less, it seems that Dell is content with ripping off it’s customers and providing sub par sales support.

I then compared pricing between America, England, and Australia, and was shocked even more now than I was when I first gazed upon the price for Australia.

Taking into account current exchange rates, import taxes (10% of the AUD Value), shipping, and customs fees, I would save approximately AUD$700 - $1,000 by importing a model with the RTX 2060 GPU into Australia. And that is compared to a model with a GTX1650Ti purchased locally.

Investigating further, I find that our English brethren are equally being taken advantage of by price gouging when converting USD to GBP. Not even allowing for taxes, shipping, etc, the raw difference is USD$1,000 more. At the time of writing the pricing is as follows:

  • Dell XPS 17, Intel i5-1030H, 8GB RAM, 256GB HDD
  • In England £1,799 (USD$2,356.74) (Note: this price includes VAT)
  • In the US $1,399

I doubt very much that the UK has nearly USD$1,000 in tariffs to make up this difference.

Customers of Dell in the UK are paying exorbitantly more for the exact same product, as are we here in Australia.

Continuing my inquiry I then uncovered something even more unspeakable. A clear price discrepancy between their “For Home” and “For Work” pricing. There are pricing differences here in Australia of between $50 to $150 for the Exact. Same. Unit. The only thing that has changed is which section of Dell’s website you happen to visit.

This clear ripoff pricing model, the representative rudeness, and lack of availability of options that are offered to others is loathsome, disrespectful, and arrogant. I was prepared to pay a “Dell Tax” for a unit that I desired, but now, after learning what I now know, I’m not sure that Dell deserves the opportunity.

Dell, You have a great product, but you are let down by a myriad of decisions stemming from your greed and overzealous push to cut costs, you have made poor decisions surrounding your sales flow and personnel, around pricing and consistency, around your customer support system, and the most glaring decision of all that you have cocked up, availability.

I do not expect a reply from you Dell, all I have to say is that you will need to clean up your business practices before you will get any of my money.

Sincerely,

Your Almost Customer

P.S. Linus, sorry for the prepubescent comment, it was added for effect. I like your work, keep it up.

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Folks from UK/Ireland would actually go on weekend shopping trips to NYC often.

it’s unfortunately usual to have price before VAT in gbp == price in usd. (currency symbol swapped) and then apply VAT.

There’s a handful of very pleasantly surprising companies that have decent supply chains and sometimes you see stuff for really cheap, and realize it’s actually the same price.

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While I do agree with most of what you say. I’ve been repairing computers professionally while studying, and for the last 20 years for friends, acquaintances and family. I must say, maybe one in twenty is either Dell or Lenovo, rest is pretty much only Asus and Acer. Keyboards failing, overheating and just simply worn out within 3-5 years. Wife has a 12 years old Dell XPS, it just runs, everything still works. I have three lenovos, 5, 8 and 13 years old, all were daily drivers and is still used today, all are working without a hitch.

I would never in my life buy Asus or Acer, build quality is just too poor, would mildly consider a Fujitsu and most definitely never Apple. So, there’s only Lenovo and Dell left really. It would most likely end with a Lenovo for me, I’ve always been happy with the ones I’ve had.

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I used to fly to New York to do a mix of holidaying/Christmas shopping back when the exchange rate was two dollars for every pound.

Don’t get me wrong, the flight was still expensive as fuck, but the savings on electronics was so much that it made my holiday relatively cheap

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That has to be so crazy that people can pay for a return flight to another country just to purchase a product, and it is still cheaper than purchasing at home.

Unfortunately for Australian’s, we are in an expensive place for air travel and I don’t think the savings will out weight the costs unless I’m purchasing about $10,000 worth of stuff.

We have a saying for companies like this here, that I assume is the same for other places, we call it the “Australia Tax”. And honestly, it needs to stop.

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So, just to get this straight, you would still buy a Dell even after their disgusting behavior during the sales process, and their stupidity with pricing tactics?

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Referring to the above, most likely not. Am just arguing the point that their quality is amongst the best from my experience, and from that point they would be a part of my decision, if I were to buy a laptop today.

When it comes to buying products from manufacturers that apply sneaky and manipulative business and pricing tactics I wouldn’t be able to buy Samsung, Nvidia, Intel and most of all Apple. Could list more, just don’t see the point.

We live in a capitalistic society owned by oligarchs, where morals is something “losers” have. Since majority of people are driven by wants rather than needs, companies like Dell do as you describe, and will continue doing so, as long as we keep buying crap we really don’t need.

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In the UK it’s sometimes cheaper to get a flight to continental Europe then back into the UK rather than get a train. Absolute madness.

But yeah, it’s a shame some countries are so fucked over in electronics prices. So often I see reviews that praise the value of something and I check and it’s just utterly bonkers pricing. I buy most of my stuff used on eBay now and it’s still more expensive than US pricing a lot of the time

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The difference between a Dell Business model and the Home model is the security features. It may be “The Same Exact Model” but it really isnt. Business models have security features on them that are required in the business and enterprise market. Like for example a functioning hardware encryption chip, network/domain monitoring and control tools in the BIOS, etc. You may also find a “pro” version of the chip or chipset instead of the normal one found on the Home models.
There is a very good reason that the Work models cost more and its not because of price gouging.

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5 posts were merged into an existing topic: /dev/null

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To play the devil’s advocate a little, it sounds like you could either

  1. Buy from a company that has shitty pricing practices and poor off shored support, but get a product that lasts a decade

or

  1. Buy from a company that may not have shitty pricing practices et cetera, but only lasts half as long

Six of one, half dozen of the other if you ask me. Depends on if you want to be upset now or upset in five years.

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This is my experience with a lot of the “cheaper” options out there. Though I’m sure theres probably some good out there for build quality, but the vast majority is cheaper because its demonstrably worse in some way.

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I’ve pretty much always heard that Dell and Lenovo business machines are generally pretty solid, which mirrors what hem said above. My own experience with other brands has made me believe it too. I haven’t bought the same brand laptop twice in row ever because of various issues.

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There is some politics in it, but the deciding factor are the people and their behaviour in the market. At least 90% of everything we buy in our house, is from another country, groceries and larger things are mainly from Germany, things that can be shipped, we get from somewhere in Europe from online shop. For instance tablets I can buy locally is Apple or a scraped model usually for Philippine market, which means half ram, smaller CPU etc, at the same price I can get a higher end version from Germany.

I used to work as server admin, and often ordered 48U worth of servers from Dell. After a few orders, I was able to negotiate 50/60/70% discounts, sometimes we got 10 TV’s or 5 laptops with the shipment. Someone has to pay for this.

I had a look at internal pricing for nation wide builders merchants. The four major chains here use the same database for pricing (cartel?). Turns out, a great deal of their products have 1000% mark-up or more. Knowing this, I managed to negotiate around 70% discount on everything we needed for a new bathroom, saved in the area of €8000.

People naively blunder into a shop, believe what the salesman says, and pay without checking anything. If it’s hardware, it has a sticker that says gamer, price increase by 20%, again parents buy without a question. The services offered will reflect the behaviour of the customers. Until majority stop acting like sheep, this will most likely escalate.

Yes, it does piss me off it is like this, I don’t blame the companies, they do what companies do, make money. My issue lies with the sheep that don’t question.

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At work we use dell machines, one of our users located in South America had her Mobo die on her recently, within a day after calling Dell, they sent a tech out to replace the mobo.

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I’m not a fan of the quality of dell laptops, having had a few higher end ones apart myself. I will give them props on support though. I’ve used it myself a few times and its always prompt.

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I did a bit more digging on Dell’s site, and I accept that I didn’t take into account Dell is offering Windows Home for home and Pro for work, so ok … I accept that can account for some of the difference, but I couldn’t find the hardware encryption chips etc that you mentioned, is that common public knowledge or do you need to tear down the laptops to find that out?

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Have you ever owned a Dell?

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I think also westerners don’t haggle much, outside of a few fields.
like, it seems socially acceptable to negotiate a house price, or car, but inconceivable to haggle over a TV.
One would rather skip past an item marked up too high.

But there are some people who haggle, and they gain a reputation for being “cheap” rather than smart.
Like, a shop selling a console will often bundle in extra games/controllers, for a modest effort of negotiating, but most people feel it’s wrong.

Easterners are much better at this, in my limited experience

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I know from having to go through Dell’s Service Tech certification process. I have access to more information than I care to know. I have Certs from the major Business Grade computer companies to repair and support their equipment.
My current laptop is a Thinkpad T495. It has business features out the wazoo.

The main way you can tell on laptops is in the BIOS. There are certain features that will be enabled and available on them in the BIOS that you wont find in Consumer Grade laptops.

On the Dell site, you may have missed it but Dell markets the Business Grade XPS 15 as a “PC as a Service” laptop. Look at the top of the image where it shows the segments " United States > Products…"

1376×592 201 KB

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