To preface, I run 2 PC’s. One as my every day driver and the other a lab box.
Here’s the spec’s of each.
Everyday PC
i7-4820K - 64GB RAM - GTX980
Lab Box
i7-2600K - 32GB RAM
I’m looking to upgrade the CPU etc in my everyday PC to something in the realms of an AMD 3900 or an Intel 10900K. I would then put the i7-4820K in the lab box (no plans yet for the i7-2600K)
Now I was all set to go with an AMD processor until I saw Linus’ recent couples PC Build on YouTube in which he was using an AMD processor and couldn’t get UnRaid to play nice with it, so he threw it in the too hard basket and swapped it out for an Intel platform which just worked right out of the box.
Being that what ever goes into my Everyday PC will eventually get Lab box duties, I don’t want to cut my nose off to spite my face by purchasing an AMD setup if there are known issues with it’s ability to virtualize
For example my i7-2600K motherboard has 2x NIC on it which is handy for a lab box, but because they’re not Intel NIC VMWare doesn’t support them. So when I bought the board for the i7-4820K I chose one that had 2x Intel NIC. So I expect far less issues with VMWare on this board when it becomes the lab machine.
So with all that in mind I feel that I’m probably better off to go with Intel, that being the case I’ll hope they actually manage to deliver for 2021 Q1 so that I can get one with PCIE 4 compatibility considering I’ll probably have this for many years. That and with more SSD being PCIE 4 compatible it would be nice to have.
However does anyone have anything to add to this discussion or can offer good reason (other than price) for going with an AMD setup?
Do NOT base your purchase decisions on an LTT video, especially if Linus is involved!
Linus is a clever chap and very knowledgeable on gaming hardware, but less fluent in matters sys-admin when it involves Linux/Unix. Which is what Unraid is build on (and he has acknowledged this several times in his videos already)
There are scores of Unraid servers running on AMD hardware very successfully, just that one (very) high-profile tech-youtuber can’t make it work means ab-so-lute-ly nothing.
Unraid on AMD user reporting in. Works good. Bleeding edge hardware in Linux is always a mess initially. Intel’s platform is a bunch more mature but I think it’s been long enough since the release of zen 2 that you won’t have any issues.
3900 just offers amazing performance for the price.
But virtualization is one of those odd cases i would recommend Intel over AMD, even when i think the bugs will be fixed in time and AMD user comes on top after all.
I know my words are basicly “feel over logic”.
If you feel safe and more confident using intel, go for it tiger!
I upgraded from Z370/i9 9900K to X570/R9 3900X.
The differences are small in Games, but huge in other things.
For example, I run Manjaro and when I am installing/upgrading from AUR, with Intel it was taking 2-3 minutes for the compilation. With AMD, it is a matter of seconds!
The rest of the HW, is the same.
As for the Virtualization, that was mentioned before, I am running 4 VMs, one is W10 with VGA passthrough for gaming and I don’t have any issues. I had to modify my config files a bit, but that was once off.
I don’t think I saw that LTT video so I don’t know what he might have done wrong.
But one thing I definitely recommend is to flash your AMD motherboard to the newest BIOS revision before seriously messing with it. There are so many fixes since the release BIOS.
And of course check reviews and be prepared to return the motherboard because some vendors take IOMMU seriously and others just don’t.
I know this is a none if the above sort of answer, but for the lab box at least give this a look: https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=EPYC3251D4I-2T. There is also a newer version but I don’t want to recommend something I haven’t touched. The draw back is the pcie lane (it does do bifurcation to x8x8 just perfectly) Have one set up as a vm host. Its a charm. On box tpw is also less than half a 3900.
Well hence I’m asking here. However he did also mention that he did reach out to the UnRaid team and despite they’re assistance there was no luck.
The other reason I’m asking here is to work out if this is a 1:1,000,000 or a 1:10 kind of thing. I mean Linus’s experience could be that odd 1 in 1 million experience or it could be a good indicator of the kind of experience many users have. I’ve no idea of telling from one video. Hence I thought I’d come ask here.
Whilst that video does focus on UnRaid, I’m interested in more than UnRaid.
Being that in several years this would become my lab box. I want to know that if I want to load VMWare on it for example that it will just work and I won’t have to spend hours mucking around with it trying to get it to work before I can do something productive with it. Same for any other O/S I may want to load on it.
So if I understand you correctly. You’re saying that if I buy a 3900 today and use it as my desktop for 3 years. When it becomes my lab box in 3 years time there will be better support for it on Linus/UnRaid than compared today?
Would you mind please elaborating more on your statement “some vendors take IOMMU seriously and others just don’t”
What would I be looking for?
What issues would I see for those that don’t?
your 2600k can be home theater PC. it will be able to play all the party games like gang beasts, fall guys etc… so you can enjoy controller local multiplayer games 4+
as for the Virtualization be sure to buy x570 if you will go with amd , to have benefits of high end board with the new 6000 ryzen cpu’s
in general I have 8700k and I am not happy with the performance in multitasking and virtualization. it is my nas+plex server + gaming pc. so it cant handle it even tho its 5ghz most of the time with 32GB ram. so I really recommend to buy more cores if you can like 3900x or 3950x or 6900x etc…
but for unpaid it its not that well optimized for amd stuff. so in general its up to you , if you are ok with having to deal with much hassle or you want as much as possible to be hassle free then go intel.
you dont have to use unraid, there are other options in general but I read some ppl mentioning it
One of the major issues is if they provide usable IOMMU groups. One device per group is a bit extreme but usable. All devices in a single group is not usable. That’s because you can only use the IOMMU to redirect a group at a time. If you want to pass PCIe devices into a virtual machine then you need a usable IOMMU setup.
If a vendor takes it seriously or not is if they update their BIOS in response to complaints, or if they brush it off as not important.
New 5000 might be worth holding out for, with the new cache layout (IPS & clock improvements are pretty sweet looking, too). At this point AM4 is pretty mature, and the word on the street is that the new chips shouldn’t need a BIOS update to be compatible with existing 5xx boards (no new chipset with this CPU).
I thought I’d just post an update here. In the end I procrastinated until I wound up in a situation that forced my hand. Who knew what the pandemic would do.
For some time I’d wanted to get an AMD Ryzen 9 5900X but they just weren’t showing up in stock here.
So about a month ago when my hand was forced I picked up an Intel i9 10900K because that was what was available.
I could have had an i9 11900K but decided against it.
Despite my previous comments about PCIe Gen4 SSD’s I’ve gone with a PCIe Gen3 platform and it’s fast enough.
(and he has acknowledged this several times in his videos already)
