Most videos and benchmarks on web favour Intel i5 3570k, but this video favours AMD FX 8350( I am not saying this video is wrong) and now I am in a total mess. I don't know which one I should go for. Some say AMD's 8 cores are not real 8 cores but 4 real cores made into 8 cores by sharing chache and stuff I don't understand. So can anyone help me ? Which one should I buy ? (don't consider the price as a criteria)
the FX8350 is a real 8 core cpu but, it has 4 modules with each 2 pairs of cores. sharing a 2MB L2 cache for each module,and also an 8MB L3 cache. 16MB of cache in total
Anyway depending on the games you play basicly. the performance is realy close, if you game and stream, then the FX8350 wil do a better job, also for productivity the AMD is better. But in the end its a bit depending on which games you play, there are a few games that favours intel cpu´s because of theire bad codded engins for multiple core usage, exemples are LoL, DayZ and Arma. But on most todays games, both cpu´s will perform very well. i would go with the FX8350, since more games gonne be optimized to use multiple cores. we allready see that comming in BF4, and
the amd is also cheaper, so i would go for the FX8350
There will be people posting benchmark results, their opinions about where gaming is headed (more core usage or not), or their own experiences with the processors.
What I would like to add is this:
1. There are suspicions (which I believe to be true) that the NSA has planted a backdoor in the Intel hardware random number generator, enabling them to break any encryption with relative ease. Based on these allegations, FreeBSD (a UNIX operating system) has taken steps to reduce the involvement of the Intel random generator when generating numbers for encryption purposes.This alone is reason enough for me to prefer AMD over Intel.
2. If you intend to use SteamOS, which is a linux distribution, I am going to point you to this article: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_kaveri_7850k&num=3. The review is about the Kaveri APU, but it has results for the FX 8350, i5 and i7 haswell. I chose it because it is recent (16th of January). The FX 8350 is comparable to the i7 on linux.
3. If you choose the Intel "k" version you don't have access to the hardware virtualization features used by linux.
first i have an FX8350 and it is very powerful, i even clocked it down for a while to 1.4GHz and didn't notice any difference in performance in BF3 or minecraft (minecraft being cpu intensive on 1-2 threads).
on the other hand i would not recommend it after getting it and comparing it to the FX8320, which is a 3.5GHz/4GHz; where the FX8350 is the same CPU but with a 4GHz/4.2GHz. FX8320 is cheaper and performs basically the same as the FX 8350. In any thing you do gaming wise will be GPU Bound so the .5ghz slower will not matter.
also if you find programs that utilize all 8-cores you will be getting great performance, and will trade punches with the i7 4770k, even Pistol's FX9590 keeps up with the i7 Logan has in a lot of tasks.
Newegg FX8350: 200
Newegg i5 3570: 220
Newegg i5 4570: 200
Newegg FX8320: 160
if you have a microcenter near you FX8320 $110, but doesn't include the $40 mobo combo, but still cheaper than newegg with mobo.
i would recommend the FX8320, it is the basically the same as FX8350 but cheaper and comes with the 8 cores.
Offcourse the FX8320 is also a great choice, the only thing i realy recommend is please do NOT cheap out on a motherboard for a FX 8 core cpu, but buy a decent 990(F)X chipsetboard!
I would have gone for the 8320 had it been available here.All i could find was the 8350.Not regretting my choice but i would have liked to save a few more bucks that way.
As for personal experience,this is my first rig.And it is AMD.So far so good.Does everything i want and then more. I have not used a 3570K extensively before,but from my limited exposure,i could not tell any difference. I don't do much productivity work,so i can't talk on that front.
1st. listen to Security Now on Twit.tv. they talked about this a few months ago. it is unlikely that the NSA backdoored the Intel Random Number generator. even IF (A VERY BIG IF) they did any good Random Number Generator that you uses (even the ones built in to linux) use large tables of numbers gathered from around the system (from fan speed, Memory and HDD latency, tempatures, along with any other thing they have). they throw these number randomly in to a (if i remember correctly) 16kb file, that is 16384 digits of random data that they access randomly then delete upon use. if the NSA can backdoor that i am shocked.
now lets look at something that the security community is sure that has a backdoor or a the very least not as random as most would like. the Dual_EC_DRBG, it is a VERY SLOW number generator, which mean that it is doing things other than random generation. Just look up Dual_EC_DRBG and be shocked. Dual_EC_DRBG has such a backdoor in it that Firefox, Safari, IE and other browsers have stopped excepting keys generated with that standard.
the second, like i said in the Recommendation of the FX8320 the FX cores do very good at threading and the more threads you plan on using the more the FX8xxx processors will do, also a lot cheaper.
i haven't really use visualization but the intel parts have "VT-X" have virtualization support.
It's missing this "Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d)", which the non-k parts have. EDIT: this allows for PCI passtrough (guest OS's can directly access the video card, making a virtual Windows container a very viable way to play Windows games on linux and allowing you to use the proprietary Windows drivers for the video card).
I trust the FreeBSD developers more than some guys on Twitch, sorry. EDIT: Logan and Wendell also said this two times that I remember of. I trust them more than some guys on Twitch too.
http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/12/we-cannot-trust-intel-and-vias-chip-based-crypto-freebsd-developers-say/
And you are missing the point. I don't recommend the Intel CPUs because I think they have an NSA backdoor, not because of what that backdoor does. As far as I am concerned, NSA could have developed it only to get my secret cookie recipe, I would still not buy the CPU because that's endorsing this kind of behavior.
if you are wanting to virtualize Windows for gaming in linux, just RUN WINDOWS AND you will not have this headache. have Windows and Linux in a Virtual environment. i looked a little and most programs do not eve use the VT-D, also the AMD equivalent of VT-D is AMD Virtualize I/O, and that is only on Opterons.
just because the Dual_EC_DRBG started with the Intel RNG doesn't mean that Intel is in the sack with the NSA. Dual_EC_DRBG is so bad, no matter where it get the starting number from it will be predictable. Intel's RNG has been fine since it was made and just because Dual_EC_DRBG uses it to start doesn't mean that it is now bad. If you are using something that is security focused they start with a random number (from intel RNG or an entropy pool) then they use a very simple and fast hash that they can run multiple times, which is what FreeBSD and other services do have done since the start.
Thank you very much, now I know that AMD FX 8350 has real 8 cores with shared cache. AMD FX 8350 just seems like a no brainer especially if you are buying the black edition.
That NSA, why do they wanna mess with every damn thing in this world, I am going with AMD and no one can stop me. Thanks for the tip =)
I went for FX 8350 cuz it was on sale. I got the black edition for 180$ which is just 20$ more than 8320 and I can use 990FX motherboard which will keep my PC future proof, but still thanks for the tip =)
the FX8350 also supports AMD-Vi as long as you using an 990FX chipset board with IOMMU feuture in the bios..
So no need for an opteron at all.
Grtz Angel ☺
if you are wanting to virtualize Windows for gaming in linux, just RUN WINDOWS AND you will not have this headache
From a security perspective... no. It is well known that Windows is a platform for delivering spyware, and furthermore, it has a dedicated backdoor for the NSA. Google _NSAKEY, it was discovered in 1999, it's common knowledge and even wikipedia has an article about it. The internet is full of evidence of Windows connecting to the internet without any reason (I'm not saying that the NSA is hacking your computer, but I am saying that Windows is phoning home to send data about you).
Also, I had headaches with dual booting Windows alongside linux. At the very least, installing Windows rewrites the MBR, meaning that you have to reinstall the linux bootloader, I am sure you have encountered this. I also had problems with grub refusing to install with a dual boot configuration (fixed it by writing my own boot.cfg file). All problems were gone after I stopped using Windows.
In my opinion, you have two choices: you either use Windows in a virtual container, with linux managing the internet connection, or you don't use it at all. I don't use Windows at all.
EDIT: Also heard people saying that running Windows in a virtual container under linux improves framerates. Go through Zoltan's posts in the Linux subforum (I know, I know, you could say that the posts are biased towards linux, after all, they are in the linux subforum, but it could serve as a basis for some duckduckgo research).
Can anyone convince me why an 8320 / 8350 would be better than an i7 4930K? Or a 4770k? I am so undecided on this, and I understand the argument for the AMD very well, but still like some of the really useful features of the intel (such as loads of cache).
They aren't better chips. But they cost a good deal less and give really solid results for the money.
Yep, the 8350 isn't better than the i7 on Windows (in benchmarks, that is, some might argue that the difference is almost unnoticeable for daily use), but the performance to price ratio is well above any of Intel's offerings.
Here's a youtuber who paid with his own money for the FX, then upgraded, again, with his own money, to an i7. He says that it wasn't worth it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvLRZxRL8N8
Regarding linux, here are some benchmarks taken on the 16th of January: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_kaveri_7850k&num=3. The reviewer was testing the 7850K, but he was comparing it with the FX8350 and the 4770k. You will see that the FX does better than the i7 in some benchmarks, in some it performs worse, but overall I would call them having equal performance. If you are toying with the idea of using linux (or simply SteamOS for games), then the FX8350 is amazing.
Pretty damn convincing. Just off the top of your head though, what's the PCI bandwidth on an AMD FX 8 or 9 series like compared with an Intel socket 2011? If you happen to know...
pci-e bandwith FX8/9 series is 16GB/s
pci-e bandwith socket 2011 is 32GB/s
But what has socket 2011 to do with this topic? ☺
This topic talks about Intel and Socket 2011 is predominantly Intel? I dunno, just wondered. Still lots of bandwidth for SLI on an FX chip though, so somewhat relevant.