Am starting to think it's the users after all.. :)

Follows the perspective of an older person, one that (more to the point) is more normie than geek;

Windows has been trying to kick me out for years now, they finally succeeded. O.K., research.
Ubuntu = trendy, everyone, apps apps apps, looks like a MAC user’s wet dream, i hear they now gather and send info too, i stop reading right there. So long folks, never met you.
Debian = bleeding edge!!! Wow! How eXXXtreme! Even has an expiration date! Pwnage111! O.K., i get it, i stop reading. So long folks, never met you.
Mint = Windows user, start here (to be read: morons, start here [yes, i am]). O.K., i’ll do that.

Except this is all to escape the Windows “experience” right? And now i’m seeing Windows Automatic Updates, sorry, i meant Update Manager; i’m seeing Windows System Restore, sorry, i meant Timeshift, i’m seeing Windows-featured, sorry, i meant pre-installed “apps”.
So i stop there. So long, never really met you.

More searching ensues! Is this not fun? I mean you just want to work amirite? So what could be better than not working!?
Arch is someday, i’ll drown in it right now. Manjaro seems too close to eXXXtreme, so am thinking nuh. Antergos seems just my thing! Can it be?

Wish me luck, because so far i’ve found nothing to complain about it. So far.

And during all this, i realised it’s the users. Which of course isn’t a surprise given our nature, so why are you even discussing this.
Because i find it funny that given aaaall the tools, they went and made something that from my perspective, has absolutely zero reason to exist in the first place. What value there might have been, they went out of their way to mask or obfuscate it by emulating ‘the enemy’, as they see it.

Which is ridiculously amusing ^^
Anyway, just an old fart’s perspective, ignore and continue :slight_smile:

None of that is true, I suggest you revisit the research you set out to earlier and not “stop reading” when you hit something you disagree with. Don’t use Reddit as a source.

This isn’t accurate, either. Unix and Linux tools were made to assist programmers with their jobs. It later evolved into a culture that was more than just programmers and math geeks, but people who wanted control over their software, an easier systems administration experience, and a plethora of other reasons.

The “emulating the enemy” thing I don’t really know what to make of. However, I will say that as someone proficient in the terminal and unix tools, having a graphical software suite or update management tool isn’t a disservice to the users.


So far as you’re concerned, research from a non-geek person = reddit.
Not only presumptuous, but insulting to boot. Albeit, in a very PC, patronising kind of way; there’s that i guess.

As to the rest, i don’t think you got it. All you did was rush to presume, or to be fairer, that’s how it appears.
But i do respect your opinion and unlike you, i won’t presume any further.
Agree to disagree and all that :slight_smile:

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As far as Ubuntu goes, you can opt in to sharing data. Omgubuntu did an article on this.

As much as I love Reddit. It’s not always the best place to learn.

Also Debian has a non bleeding edge version. I forgot the name tho…


I had a smile, and enjoyed the spirit and humour of your post.

Ubuntu’s data sharing is absolutely minimal (some details about the hardware you run - perfectly reasonable if you ask me), and you can switch it off during the very earliest stages of its install.

We’re all highly sensitive to telemetry, and rightly so, but you may wish to revisit your rejection of Ubuntu because it’s quite a nice way to start of one’s Linux experience. :slight_smile:



Version and flavor of Ubuntu you’re installing
Whether you have network connectivity at install time
Hardware statistics such as CPU, RAM, GPU, etc
Device manufacturer
Installation time
Whether you choose auto login, installing third-party codecs, downloading updates during install
Disk layout

And that’s it. Sounds reasonable.

You may not have used Reddit, but whatever you were reading was not that reliable.


Unstable, Stretch, Stable are the three kinds IIRC.


This is what makes any Linux distro great isn’t it? The freedom to do as you will with the software.


You’re new to linux, so I’m going to try to educate yo a little bit. If I sound like I’m being too rough, please excuse me, as I do not intend to do so. But you’re very uneducated in the things that you bring up.

As others have stated, telemetry isn’t a problem with Ubuntu. It’s “trendy” because of its ease of use and approach-ability for new users like yourself.

Ubuntu is built on Debian. I don’t. Get it? I think you’re the one presuming a lot of things with this one. You don’t have to go with the untested versions.

Linux Mint is built from Ubuntu, and is a perfectly nice choice.

Do you not want updates…? Turn it off?

How is having a backup incase (when) you break something a bad thing?

Not sure which come with Mint, but most only come with core apps, like file browser, internet browser, music player and whatnot. Do you… not want that functionality?


Manjaro is Arch.

AntergOS is Arch.

The problem isn’t “the users”. But there is an issue with users with the mindset of “So i stop there. So long, never really met you.”.

I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to here? What is pointless?


It’s Sid, Testing, and Stable (which is currently Stretch)

Debian is called many things, but I’ve never heard anyone call it bleeding edge. Debian releases are every 2 years. Far from bleeding edge, unless you jump through some hoops and install Sid or testing.


No, you calling Ubuntu spyware and Debian bleeding edge, which is the furthest from, screams Reddit.

How I felt about your entire post, to be honest.

I actually spent a great deal of time drafting a response. There was nothing to get, your post and “research findings” on those operating systems are false.

You read some nonsense and went with it. The fact that you don’t understand why these tools exist leads me to believe that you need more education on the matter


Well you’re wrong to be fearful of that. All that the information is that they pull is what hardware, kernel, and DE you have. Whenever it pulls a report you can look at it, and you can tell it to tell you when it does a report. Though understandable why you would not be keen about that, its as stupid to fear that as it was for people to think systemd was made by amazon and that journalctl was stealing your info.

And in case of that, open a terminal and do journalctl and see what amazon would see if they were stealing your data.

Mint is also a literal pile of garbage. I don’t even recommend that shit to putin.

Good choice, especially if you’re comfy in the terminal. If not you will be pretty quick. Updating is a lot faster via terminal and such.

If arch breaks on you, and it will trust me, have a look at elementary. Theres very few scummy OS’s to worry about anymore as most of them have been eradicated. Jupiter Broadcasting makes a good podcast, and have many on different things in linux. They often have ubuntu or ubuntu mate developers on as guests as they are all buddies, so you can learn about the inner workings if you wanted.

And if you have any problems with anything, don’t hesitate to ask here, of course :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah I don’t like it either, and I’m only 23. Its why I’m looking at gentoo, void, everything that linux USED to be that is being continued. And if I reeealy need something, a tool that only a systemd machine or something like that can do… Well, I’ll just have to figure that out later :]


What’s the difference between Sid and testing?

Packages in testing will gradually version lock and become the next stable release. Sid is continually rolling.

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Thanks for replying folks;
And… where to start :slight_smile:

K, honesty. Might as well.
I wanted to differentiate me if you will from whatever hive/non-hive mentality you folks might have*, after ‘x’ amount of years of delving into the software side of things. * Emphasis on might.
And because in our PC-governed world even the word hive can be offensive: differentiate because usually, one notices that the more some people know about a single topic, the more, err, myopic they tend to be. Again, just stating my experiences; don’t mean here, i mean experiences in general.
The forest can sometimes be lost when staring too much at the tree.

So for example, while yes, Ubuntu isn’t asking after my size in underwear or street address, it’s still doing something that will or at least may eventually lead to… other things.
We’ve seen it before, we’re seeing it now, we’re bound to see it in the future.
Mentality. That’s what annoyed me; while i did not even mention it, my non Reddit research (and btw, thanks again dude!) also told me how to ‘opt out’ of it. But… again; mentality. Or maybe principles, if that helps?

And mentality goes both ways.
When Aenra talks about a userbase in the millions and certain tropes it might have, least on the surface, and one dude gets offended personally…
Mentality, my dear admin_dev. Dunno why you got offended, but you need some introspection right there.
Unless i’m wrong of course. Had i been wrong, would that make it less insulting to you personally?
And what if i’m right? Before you allowed yourself to feel slighted by a random’s broader thoughts, did you pause to consider?

Is it not human nature to emulate? Is it not in our culture to often go for the antithesis only so as to proclaim our ‘difference’? Do you honestly see neither of these evident? Anywhere?
You got stuck in the tree; was only talking about the forest.

Likewise with the other smart guy, telling me Manjaro and Antergos are also Arch; why aren’t you wise! Who’d have thought!
Reading comprehension… one of the many prerequisites for wisdom.

Thankfully, being a forest, exceptions (read: trees) do exist :slight_smile:

Once again, thanks for the replies and thanks for the offer @FaunCB

As to my mistake, should have typed Fedora, not Debian; and i’m betting my money some of you knew exactly what i was trying to convey anyway, but… easier to focus on the mistake ^^
Regardless, sincere apologies for the wall-o-text, lol

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No, I think you’re missing the point. You are staring so hard at trees and everyone else is trying to get you to see the forest.


So what do you actually want from your computer?

From my perspective I prefer GNU / Linux because of the philosophy of free software.

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We’re supposed to read your mind, eh? You typed a completely different distro. But yeah, our bad. We should have known you meant something completely different. Our bad.

Except you said You’d give Arch a try, Majero was too “eXXXtreme” but Antergos was Just your thing" Even though they’re the same. Base OS and the only difference is the DE you start out with. Arch even has a GUI installer, making it more exactly like the others.

So you knew it was the same, but acted like they weren’t?

Like I said, the attitude you have toward this will not get you very far.


The whole point of Free Software is that people shouldn’t be telling you what you should be running on your personal computer.

Antergos is a fine distro, and it’s pretty. They do continuous builds on the AUR which is something Arch really should be doing. They’ve also got a polite, welcoming community, though it is small.

And during all this, i realised it’s the users. Which of course isn’t a surprise given our nature

more normie than geek;

Discussing the nature of Linux users is kind of important, I think.

Normies don’t think about software. They certainly don’t install their own operating systems. It takes a certain type of critical person to form strong opinions about software, and almost every Linux user demonstrates they are that type of person by making the decision to deviate from the status quo.

The inescapable consequence of that truth is that no distro will ever be “the best”, because there are as many ideas about what makes “good software” as there are users.

Flaming people for their distro choice is as idiotic as standing outside of an ice cream parlor and criticizing the toppings people put on their sundaes.


This video sums it up nicely. Pick what you want.
I use Fedora with KDE. People will screech that I use KDE. Who cares just learn terminal well and suck up all of the commands you can.
There is no best choice just do what you need to do.