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Alternative Fuels #1: Ethanol

wiki
#1

I will be including wikipedia links to common terms to serve as a sort of glossary :slight_smile:
This post is as complete as I can make it for now and is always a work in progress. It may turn into a wiki about Ethanol

DISCLAIMER

Please do NOT run on higher levels of ethanol in a non FFV above 25 percent. Please tune a vehicle properly if considering use. I am not responsible for damage if you take my route

A little background

So your burning dinoline aka gasoline in your cars. You hear a lot of stuff about emissions and improving the environment. Lets talk about that for a bit.

Gasoline

Gasoline as you all know , is a colorless to straw yellow liquid we burn in our vehicles. This liquid is petroleum-derived flammable liquid. This fuel is primarily used in spark-ignited internal combustion engines. The yield of gasoline to a barrel of crude oil is roughly 70 liters for every 162 liters of crude oil or roughly 43 percent from its source. REMEMBER 43 percent we will be using this number later!

The main components we find in modern gasoline are: isooctane, butane, 3-ethyltoluene, and the octane enhancer MTBE. This gasoline if properly refined will have a smaller ratio of isoheptane aka C7 chains and similar functional groups. These are responsible for lowering the octane number while higher levels of isooctane are responsible for a higher octane number. We use these numbers to create an Anti Knock Index using the method of RON + MON /2 while europe typically differs using RON or research octane number as the primary number rating vs averaging it with the MON or Motor Octane Number.


Left Top: ISOOCTANE
Left Bottom: BUTANE
Center: 4-Ethyltoluene
Right: Methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE)

As you can see gasoline is a mixture of organic molecules. This presents an issue when burning the fluid. Its combustion is volatile but also unpredictable and makes it a rather dirty none homogeneous fuel. Certain pockets will burn at different rates and different amounts of heat. Pretty cool huh? So how do we burn it reliably. Well we refine it into mostly C4-C12 chains preferably C8 or above. These hydrogen bonds onto this carbon and oxygen based molecule AKA a HYDROCARBON is able to release a lot of energy giving gasoline another value you should remember for this post. This property is an energy density of gasoline at a glorious 114,405 BTU/US gal (BTU stands for her majesties…-- egh cough right British thermal units). Gasoline is also toxic and cancer causing.

Combustion of gasoline is a chemical reaction as you probably know. Lets step you through it just a bit. The stoichiometric combustion of gasoline with pure oxygen is as follows if using a stoichiometric ration of 14.65:1. We are going to step through 4 equations showing why this is not always the case.

C8H18 + 12.5 O2 → 8 CO2 + 9 H2O (EQ 1)

Great there is the ideal and educational case. Guess what thats fantasy haha :slight_smile: man oh man if it only worked that way. So lets get slightly more realistic. If you burn gasoline with air instead of oxygen (assuming 21% oxygen 79% nitrogen):

C8H18 + 12.5 (O2 + 3.76 N2) → 8 CO2 + 9H2O + 47 N2 (EQ 2)

The second equation is simply the first one with nitrogen or N2 added. In ideal case the oxygen in the air reacts with gasoline then forms carbon-dioxide and water vapor. Well this isnt the case and varies based on the temperature of the combustion chamber both post and pre combustion as well during and throughout it. Not to mention we have another issue that I mentioned previously. The combustion is not stoichiometric everywhere but rather we have fuel lean and fuel rich zones. In such cases (still ideal conditions) we have oxygen or carbon-monoxide in the products. This brings us to our condition varying ideal equations without NOx which is produced which will occur if the flame temperature reaches 2800 F. This can happen believe it or not :wink: but anyways here we go:

C8H18 + 12.5α (O2 + 3.76 N2) → 8CO2 + 9H2O + 47N2 + (α-1) O2 (EQ 3)*

When my dummy variable alpha is greater than 1 this means that we have excess oxidizer and the combustion is fuel lean. Note that for α =1 the third equation is same as the second equation.

C8H18 + a (O2+3.76 N2) → b CO2 + c CO + d H2O + (3.76 a) N2 (EQ 4)

The dummy variables a, b, c and d are some constants which can be found from the chemical equilibrium ( EQ 1) and element balance ( EQ 3) and really get to complicated for this post. This is the fuel rich case and we have unburned hydrocarbon/fuel. See I bet your feeling confused already well guess what!? Real life burning of gasoline still isnt this simple.

However in real life these equations are changed a little bit from here and considered a fairly good enough model. If you examine the exhaust port of the combustion chamber of an internal combustion engine, you will have CO, CO2, H2O, NOx, SOx, x is a number like 1 or 2 depending on number of Oxidation bonds. Engineers working on automobiles in the industry tend to lower NOx and SOx emissions under a threshold or try to design as such because they want to be green and yes the earth matters.

Thanks for bearing with the organic chemistry lesson. We now know gasoline is a fairly dirty fuel, its toxic, its not easy to model, and it can be tricky to raise the octane of for efficient combustion. However we do also know that it has superior energy density :slight_smile:

Let’s talk about Ethanol

Ethanol is part of the function group of Ethyl Alcohols. Its often mixed into gasoline above to raise the octane and improve the combustion characteristics often cleaning up the combustion of the fuel. Before anybody rants and says this isnt always true I have found a decent video demonstration:

Now that youve seen the physical proof lets move forward with ethanol. Fun fact its also part of your wonder alcoholic beverages and making it is nearly identical to how you make moonshine. Though you would not want to drink straight ethanol (E95) as it could kill you via intoxication. E95 is referred to as hydrous ethanol. It is the highest content of alcohol you can refine in a fractional distiller. Often we are told water is bad and ethanol is corrosive we will get into the truth behind this a bit later on.

Chemical Make Up and Combustion

The chemical diagram of the base group of Ethyl Alcohol is as follows. Its a two carbon atom alcohol. Note that you can tell its an alcohol because of the top right O-H bond. Alcohols are part of the OH functional group :wink: . Here enjoy this beautiful graphic. Note the skeletal digramn. For the curious the solid wedges represent bonds that point out of the plane of the screen or towards you the observer in a 3D sense and of course the hashed wedges mean the opposite direction. We are not going to get into this. Start here if you want to learn :wink:

SO an alcohol is a hydrocarbon. Its flammable. Its relatively easy to store. Hey we can use it to burn as a fuel right and it will be just like gasoline LETS DO EEET! LOL turn down those RPMs for a moment its not that simple. Ethanol contains roughly 78,150 BTU / gal and in practice this can very slightly. Let us compare this to gasoline by creating a Gasoline Gallon Equivalency. This fairly simple. Take 78150/114450 and we get roughly 0.6828 so pure E95 hydrous ethanol contains 68.28 % of the energy content of gasoline. This means that we need roughly 31.72 % more gasoline to create the same amount of work all things being equal. This means at MAX you need 1.3172 the amount of fuel into the chamber in terms of consuption to run your vehicle. For all intents and purposes Ill skip the combustion formula for now as unburned alcohols can oxidize into aldehydes in tiny amounts and I dont want to get into full alcohol combustion. However an important number to realize is that while ethanol has an ideal stoich of 9.6:1 ratio wise it can be efficiently burned at up to 12:1 without engine damage which will be close to the ratio that a non Flex fuel vehicle will burn it at.

Its often mixed with gasoline. Heres a diagramn

Dispelling the myths!

MPG
Alright lets get rid of this boomer age statement: “Oh my god ethanol trashed my fuel economy and not I get 15 mpg bla bla more running E0 fuel”

Guess what its 100 % a meme. Its a complete logical fallacy. How can you get that much more MPG? You cant period said done no buts and ifs or any of that. Why? Glad you asked. E10 contains up to 10 percent ethanol. This is your standard pump gas and sometimes you may see E15. Realistically they have 5 and 10 percent on average respectively. So 10 percent ethanol. Great well then lets do some simple math to calculate our BTUs which will directly translate to the percentage of MPG changes

BTU (E10) (Worst Case): (78150(0.1)+114450(.9))/(114450) = 0.96 or 96 percent that of PURE gasoline. Great so we lost 4 percent fuel economy. Lets translate that to MPG. Lets say this average boomer’s car gets about 26 MPG. Lets calculate the maximum MPG gain. This gain is equal to 26*1.04 which is 27.04 MPG. Wow a whole MPG! Woot congrats you gained some fuel economy and thats all you could gain PERIOD. Any other gains are in your head but losses are also possible. The addition of ethanol acts as an oxygenate which can improve the amount of work output of your enegine if properly mixed. Unfortunately E10 is not ideal and results in lean pockets in your engine which can reduce fuel economy and this is the main issue people see. There is a saving grace. An ideal mixture of gasoline to ethanol is actually E33 and this is due to the non linear nature of mixtures. It turns out E33 while it should have have roughly 11 percent less fuel economy. In practice and in my own practice as well I find this number to be closer to 8. There are many theories as to why. Primary reasons for the discrepancy are due to the oxygenation and excess oxygen provided to gasoline as well as the higher octane of ethanol. This allows for your engines ECU (Engine Control Unit) to advance the timing of the engine and fully utilize the fuel thermodynamically.

It blew so and so’s engine up corn fuel bad

LOL another misinformed statement. Ethanol cannot be the cause of your engine detonating because it has a far superior AKI or anti knock index. Here is a chart that has a huge list of various fuels for example. Scrolling to E85 or anything with ethanol will show you that the AKI is superior

Time Saver:
Pure E95 Ethanol: 108.6
E85: 104.7
E33: 93.1
E15: 90.1
E10: 89
E5: 88
E0: 87
Pure Gasoline without MTBE: 83 or 85 (sold in some rocky mountain states DO NOT RUN THIS IN A MODERN CAR)

So an engine cannot detonate or knock to death when the octane is higher period said done. It is probably the result of poor maintenance or some off the shelf crap snake oil chemical. Bottom line is ethanol wont harm engines designed since the E10 transition in the 90’s which includes damaging fuel lines. It cannot and will not damage rubber fuel lines since circa 1992 when the switched over to polar chemical resistant lines. Ethanol is a polar chemical. Any line tank and system rated for E10 can handle E85 or higher. There are far too many lies and fake science surrounding this eating of fuel lines. The video I posted should show this as well. Lets show case this. Heres a video from the same guy using small engine kits which is the source of almost all the modern day complaints proving its a myth and your being lied to. Yeah yeah sample size of 1 isnt a good measure. Guess what the scientific method is. I recreated the same experiment and so can you to verify his results.

Water Absorption
Ethanol is hydroscopic this is true. However the rate at which it can do this is VASTLY overstated. Lets show one more video showing a 33 percent ethanol start up after sitting for a year in what is not the most sealed tank:

Try that with regular non stabilized gasoline! LOL youll be tearing the machine apart just like I had to with a lawn mower. But hey dont take my word for it you can always run an experiment like he did. I have done a similar experiment with lawn mowers yielding similar results. Well its not all fine and dandy SOMETIMES water can get in higher concentrations not due to ethanol and the ethanol will emulsify the water temporarily but something called phase separation will occur. Ethanol in its pure form can contain up to 5 percent water hence E95 and not phase separate. In this form ethanol will also NOT draw anymore water because the ethanol has satisfied its azeotropic equilibrium. However this presents a problem ethanol cannot satisfy this equilibrium if cosolvents are used in conjunction with higher volumes of gasoline aka 80+% or E20 - E0. This issue is lessened the higher the mix of ethanol E33 experiences less and if the mixture of ethanol is greater than 71 percent phase separation will never occur and the water content will never be in excess of 3.5 percent. Water is not always bad in an engine and its always present in some form some where. In fact water can lower the reactivity of oxidative properties of ethanol making it more stable and less corrosive. The Netherlands found this out by using hydrous ethanol. You can read on this here:

The United states but not brazil uses anahydrous ethanol as of 2018. Anahydrous is expensive and also makes ethanol very hydroscopic and corrosive due to needing those extra water molecules for stabilization. Its estimated that ethanol fuels could be 30-48 percent cheaper if we chose not to remove that last bit of water. Also due to the lack of phase seperation above 70 percent ethanol as discussed earlier it can also be used in winter without worry of freezing down to -114.1°C for pure ethanol and -98 C for E70. E70 does not have cold start issues so long as the ethanol content does not exceed 75 percent. Anywhere above that and you have cold start issues. This is why E85 has a lower content of ethanol in the winter :slight_smile:

My engine runs smoother on E10
This is only partially somewhat true in certain circumstances. Let’s overview all the conditions where smoother operation is more likely:

E0 all cars can run pure gasoline. This will yield smooth consistent operation. E33 The ideal mixture tends to run exceptionally smooth with very little RPM fluctuation at idle. Mixtures above E51 tend can be hit or miss depending on some conditions but generally run smoother. E95 like the case of E0 being a pure liquid of the fuel will run very smooth in fact smoother than E0 with a good tune (most cars need a tune for this)… This is due to it being a pure homogeneous mixture of only one time of flammable liquid. The air fuel mix is extremely consistent

Whats stopping us from running it?

Honestly, just an ECU tune 99 percent of the time. If you have a non flexible fuel you can have the fuel mapped to be adaptive or you can have multiple tunes one for gasoline or gasohol (E10-15) and one for E70 which is the perfect content to tune to for running E85 (contains 55-83 percent ethanol). Due to being smack in the middle the ECU can compensate for the slight variances without issue. You can run it in a normal non ffv car. However a lot of the time you will encounter a check engine light beyond 35 percent however below that amount you will suffer no I’ll effects. Engine temperatures will be normal if not slightly cooler in a direct injection engine and on a port injection engine they will be normal or slight above due to the differences of those two combustion methods. Either way so long as you don’t have enough to set off your check engine light and you’ve blended an amount your vehicle can compensate for you will be just fine. The check engine light isnt bad. It just tells you that you are running leaner than the rigid mapping from the factory can handle. Lean can be bad in a turbo charged engine. DO NOT DO THIS IN A TURBO ENGINE WITHOUT A TUNE. If you want to do this in a turbo engine without a tune do not blend more than 23 percent ethanol or you risk actually running to lean in boosted conditions which is bad. I hope that all caps gets your attention.

Personal Use and Testing

I do have some numbers for yall :slight_smile:
Things to note:
Highway driving determined by speed:
<=45 is city

46 is highway
Ethanol Testing kit used

BASELINE

Details below about driving and how I monitored this is just a baseline section. Upon thinking about ethanol my car had a ton of miles on it. I started recording with the app torque detailed below at roughly 73k miles on this 2009 Ford Focus that wasnt E85 tuned until later :wink: SO here we have a regular non FFV car doing just fine. Upon reaching 200 tanks measured with the torque app I decided to make the switch over to various amounts of ethanol and I decided to carry out this somewhat scientific test for 200 tank recordings :slight_smile: I figured that would be only fair. Ive always been particularly meticulous about running the tank down to the under my quarter tank and then filling up. I rounded some numbers up to try to keep things easier to do the math and the differences werent that great :slight_smile: If you want the unrounded version I can always post it but I dont really want to because it doesnt matter too much.

Table 1

Baseline Table
Tank # E Content Gallons Used (rounded up) Distance Traveled MPG Highway % City % AVG LTFT (AVG %)
1 8 329.67 36.63 84 16 1
2 10 349.2 34.92 87 13 2
3 11 405.46 36.86 70 30 3
4 12 421.8 35.15 83 17 1
5 11 376.2 34.2 82 18 3
6 12 437.76 36.48 70 30 3
7 8 276.48 34.56 81 19 2
8 12 427.68 35.64 83 17 3
9 12 433.2 36.1 84 16 1
10 8 274.4 34.3 85 15 1
11 8 285.12 35.64 85 15 1
12 9 338.58 37.62 83 17 1
13 10 362.6 36.26 87 13 3
14 12 421.8 35.15 81 19 2
15 9 316.35 35.15 75 25 3
16 13 476.19 36.63 72 28 1
17 10 339.5 33.95 82 18 3
18 8 263.84 32.98 79 21 3
19 13 428.74 32.98 80 20 3
20 8 279.36 34.92 82 18 3
21 8 263.84 32.98 69 31 2
22 8 273.6 34.2 80 20 2
23 12 415.8 34.65 87 13 2
24 11 369.6 33.6 81 19 3
25 11 413.82 37.62 87 13 1
26 13 474.24 36.48 72 28 1
27 11 413.82 37.62 78 22 3
28 11 413.82 37.62 73 27 1
29 8 276.48 34.56 78 22 1
30 9 335.16 37.24 79 21 3
31 11 359.04 32.64 75 25 1
32 11 401.28 36.48 77 23 2
33 9 317.52 35.28 69 31 3
34 10 351.5 35.15 88 12 2
35 9 299.25 33.25 77 23 3
36 10 368.6 36.86 87 13 1
37 9 308.7 34.3 75 25 3
38 13 432.25 33.25 77 23 1
39 12 410.4 34.2 79 21 3
40 11 390.72 35.52 85 15 2
41 12 439.56 36.63 80 20 2
42 12 426.24 35.52 77 23 3
43 8 293.04 36.63 80 20 1
44 8 263.84 32.98 83 17 2
45 12 414.72 34.56 71 29 3
46 9 331.74 36.86 73 27 1
47 8 277.2 34.65 88 12 2
48 12 403.92 33.66 77 23 1
49 8 279.36 34.92 82 18 1
50 13 489.06 37.62 73 27 3
51 9 290.7 32.3 70 30 2
52 13 419.9 32.3 87 13 3
53 8 285.12 35.64 71 29 1
54 12 414.72 34.56 86 14 3
55 8 284.16 35.52 72 28 1
56 11 401.28 36.48 73 27 3
57 10 356.4 35.64 76 24 1
58 13 444.6 34.2 71 29 2
59 11 392.04 35.64 79 21 1
60 9 308.7 34.3 72 28 2
61 13 453.96 34.92 70 30 1
62 11 388.08 35.28 74 26 1
63 10 329.8 32.98 75 25 3
64 9 328.32 36.48 77 23 2
65 12 414.72 34.56 72 28 2
66 10 362.6 36.26 76 24 1
67 10 342 34.2 73 27 1
68 13 445.9 34.3 70 30 1
69 8 277.2 34.65 71 29 2
70 8 274.4 34.3 76 24 1
71 8 282.24 35.28 81 19 1
72 9 319.68 35.52 88 12 3
73 11 380.16 34.56 85 15 3
74 9 290.7 32.3 82 18 2
75 10 351.5 35.15 73 27 3
76 9 316.35 35.15 86 14 1
77 13 445.9 34.3 73 27 1
78 10 376.2 37.62 69 31 1
79 9 338.58 37.62 84 16 2
80 9 323.01 35.89 74 26 3
81 8 276.48 34.56 77 23 3
82 12 399 33.25 84 16 1
83 9 335.16 37.24 77 23 2
84 9 299.88 33.32 82 18 2
85 11 370.26 33.66 70 30 3
86 10 343 34.3 87 13 1
87 12 437.76 36.48 87 13 3
88 9 319.68 35.52 87 13 1
89 13 433.16 33.32 78 22 3
90 11 376.2 34.2 87 13 2
91 8 266 33.25 69 31 1
92 12 399 33.25 88 12 1
93 11 359.04 32.64 86 14 3
94 8 288.8 36.1 80 20 2
95 10 352.8 35.28 82 18 1
96 11 384.12 34.92 71 29 1
97 10 342 34.2 74 26 1
98 8 284.16 35.52 80 20 3
99 12 430.68 35.89 73 27 3
100 10 345.6 34.56 84 16 3
101 12 403.92 33.66 83 17 3
102 11 381.15 34.65 81 19 2
103 13 445.9 34.3 73 27 3
104 12 442.32 36.86 72 28 2
105 9 311.04 34.56 88 12 2
106 9 323.01 35.89 81 19 1
107 10 336 33.6 72 28 2
108 9 302.4 33.6 81 19 1
109 10 356.4 35.64 75 25 2
110 13 479.18 36.86 80 20 1
111 8 258.4 32.3 76 24 3
112 11 362.78 32.98 79 21 2
113 9 319.68 35.52 78 22 1
114 13 474.24 36.48 88 12 3
115 9 305.55 33.95 88 12 3
116 8 300.96 37.62 70 30 3
117 8 266 33.25 77 23 3
118 9 299.88 33.32 82 18 3
119 9 329.67 36.63 79 21 1
120 8 281.2 35.15 74 26 1
121 11 388.08 35.28 81 19 1
122 13 432.25 33.25 77 23 1
123 12 427.68 35.64 83 17 3
124 13 441.35 33.95 75 25 2
125 11 381.15 34.65 80 20 1
126 13 424.32 32.64 69 31 1
127 8 261.12 32.64 81 19 3
128 8 276.48 34.56 71 29 1
129 12 430.68 35.89 78 22 3
130 8 279.36 34.92 71 29 3
131 10 323 32.3 69 31 3
132 11 365.75 33.25 75 25 1
133 13 445.9 34.3 83 17 3
134 11 392.04 35.64 69 31 2
135 13 463.32 35.64 75 25 3
136 11 376.2 34.2 78 22 1
137 9 323.01 35.89 72 28 2
138 11 359.04 32.64 75 25 3
139 9 302.4 33.6 73 27 3
140 13 484.12 37.24 71 29 2
141 13 456.95 35.15 82 18 2
142 9 302.94 33.66 79 21 3
143 10 329.8 32.98 72 28 2
144 10 323 32.3 85 15 3
145 8 284.16 35.52 83 17 1
146 9 311.85 34.65 74 26 3
147 10 336.6 33.66 71 29 3
148 13 424.32 32.64 73 27 1
149 10 345.6 34.56 83 17 1
150 12 399.84 33.32 81 19 1
151 13 479.18 36.86 85 15 3
152 9 319.68 35.52 88 12 1
153 10 355.2 35.52 72 28 3
154 8 266 33.25 73 27 3
155 13 474.24 36.48 81 19 2
156 10 333.2 33.32 78 22 1
157 9 311.85 34.65 84 16 2
158 13 449.28 34.56 83 17 1
159 13 461.76 35.52 78 22 2
160 8 268.8 33.6 70 30 2
161 10 362.6 36.26 69 31 3
162 13 444.6 34.2 81 19 2
163 8 266 33.25 80 20 1
164 11 384.12 34.92 72 28 2
165 10 368.6 36.86 82 18 1
166 9 335.16 37.24 69 31 1
167 8 277.2 34.65 85 15 2
168 8 297.92 37.24 76 24 3
169 11 370.26 33.66 69 31 2
170 10 326.4 32.64 73 27 2
171 10 372.4 37.24 86 14 2
172 9 331.74 36.86 69 31 2
173 8 290.08 36.26 81 19 3
174 8 277.2 34.65 81 19 3
175 11 362.78 32.98 85 15 3
176 11 369.6 33.6 84 16 3
177 10 345.6 34.56 84 16 3
178 13 436.8 33.6 76 24 3
179 9 338.58 37.62 79 21 3
180 12 427.68 35.64 81 19 1
181 11 401.28 36.48 71 29 2
182 12 395.76 32.98 72 28 2
183 10 372.4 37.24 71 29 3
184 13 436.8 33.6 79 21 3
185 13 476.19 36.63 86 14 3
186 12 439.56 36.63 75 25 2
187 10 352.8 35.28 87 13 3
188 10 356.4 35.64 86 14 1
189 11 390.72 35.52 82 18 2
190 9 299.25 33.25 75 25 3
191 9 311.04 34.56 82 18 1
192 13 441.35 33.95 79 21 3
193 12 387.6 32.3 86 14 2
194 12 391.68 32.64 82 18 2
195 9 302.94 33.66 73 27 1
196 9 328.32 36.48 84 16 3
197 12 435.12 36.26 80 20 2
198 9 326.34 36.26 84 16 3
199 9 299.88 33.32 79 21 PUMP GAS 2
200 12 399.84 33.32 87 13 34.878 1

Began ethanol fuel testing in higher mixtures

I tried my best to capture as much data as possible to be as scientific as possible. The results do correlate with what I said above however feel free to do your own calculations. :slight_smile: I do a metric crap ton of driving so I am a pretty good measure of a decent commute plus mostly highway driving these results can differ YMMV especially if you drive more city than highway. However my speeds on the highway and my attitude driving in the city vary so perhaps the percentage tracking ive done with the torque app does not always correlate. I tried to be as meticulous as possible when I filled up and tried to make sure I didnt have more than a delta of 2-3 gallons used in difference from tank to tank. It was difficult to do but I wanted solid data. Also please note I got far better at controlling when I filled up over time. The next 200 results will be slightly more consistent on the gallons used. In order to determine the E content of the fuel I used a kit that allows you to do it. They can be found cheap online! (Yes it definitely got old after a while but I kept a good attitude about good data)
App used:

Table 2

Ethanol Experimentation Table
Tank # E Content Gallons Used (rounded up) Distance Traveled MPG Highway % City % AVG LTFT (AVG %) EQV LTFT POST TUNE
1 30 12 371.28 30.94 78 22 12 (Estimation)
2 29 12 414.96 34.58 77 23 12
3 32 12 386.4 32.2 75 25 11
4 27 10 336.7 33.67 76 24 12
5 31 10 345.8 34.58 78 22 12
6 28 9 292.95 32.55 80 20 13
7 30 12 393.12 32.76 79 21 13
8 27 11 370.37 33.67 80 20 13
9 33 11 346.5 31.5 73 27 12
10 28 10 309.4 30.94 75 25 13
11 30 11 360.36 32.76 72 28 12
12 33 10 316.2 31.62 76 24 11
13 28 12 382.2 31.85 72 28 12
14 30 9 278.46 30.94 82 18 12
15 33 11 388.74 35.34 72 28 11
16 33 11 364.32 33.12 74 26 12
17 28 11 378.51 34.41 71 29 11
18 30 11 356.4 32.4 81 19 12
19 27 9 291.6 32.4 81 19 11
20 33 11 384.56 34.96 75 25 13
21 32 12 371.28 30.94 75 25 11
22 33 10 342 34.2 72 28 13
23 29 10 349.6 34.96 82 18 12
24 29 11 384.56 34.96 79 21 12
25 27 9 278.46 30.94 73 27 13
26 27 12 393.12 32.76 77 23 11
27 31 12 401.76 33.48 72 28 11
28 28 11 366.3 33.3 82 18 12
29 29 11 384.56 34.96 72 28 11
30 27 11 358.05 32.55 78 22 12
31 32 9 307.8 34.2 71 29 12
32 30 12 414.96 34.58 79 21 11
33 30 11 388.74 35.34 81 19 13
34 33 12 419.52 34.96 75 25 13
35 31 9 281.52 31.28 81 19 12
36 30 9 318.06 35.34 75 25 12
37 33 9 275.4 30.6 75 25 11
38 32 12 408.48 34.04 81 19 12
39 29 9 283.5 31.5 77 23 E30 12
40 33 11 370.37 33.67 75 25 33.14 12
41 43 12 393.12 32.76 81 19 17
42 40 9 269.28 29.92 76 24 16
43 39 9 288.36 32.04 71 29 17
44 38 12 388.8 32.4 76 24 16
45 39 9 300.96 33.44 81 19 15
46 45 12 395.16 32.93 80 20 16
47 46 9 286.65 31.85 77 23 17
48 40 12 369.6 30.8 72 28 17
49 38 12 367.2 30.6 81 19 17
50 44 10 327.6 32.76 71 29 17
51 46 10 311.5 31.15 82 18 17
52 38 12 371.28 30.94 77 23 15
53 37 10 318.5 31.85 82 18 16
54 42 10 302.6 30.26 71 29 15
55 45 11 352.44 32.04 71 29 15
56 42 11 380.38 34.58 71 29 17
57 41 9 294.84 32.76 76 24 15
58 40 10 308 30.8 71 29 16
59 37 11 342.65 31.15 82 18 15
60 39 9 286.65 31.85 77 23 17
61 41 11 336.6 30.6 75 25 17
62 44 11 372.02 33.82 76 24 15
63 46 11 332.86 30.26 76 24 17
64 43 11 380.38 34.58 72 28 17
65 40 9 280.35 31.15 73 27 15
66 39 12 404.04 33.67 71 29 17
67 46 11 367.84 33.44 71 29 15
68 37 12 393.12 32.76 81 19 16
69 46 12 388.8 32.4 82 18 15
70 40 12 369.6 30.8 81 19 15
71 45 11 352.44 32.04 79 21 16
72 43 10 318.5 31.85 81 19 17
73 43 12 384.48 32.04 75 25 16
74 43 9 272.34 30.26 82 18 17
75 41 12 393.12 32.76 79 21 17
76 43 12 393.12 32.76 71 29 15
77 46 11 332.86 30.26 74 26 15
78 44 9 280.35 31.15 74 26 15
79 45 11 372.02 33.82 76 24 15
80 37 9 303.03 33.67 72 28 16
81 42 12 378 31.5 75 25 17
82 41 11 329.12 29.92 78 22 15
83 38 11 358.16 32.56 72 28 16
84 37 12 380.16 31.68 79 21 15
85 42 9 280.35 31.15 72 28 16
86 44 9 299.7 33.3 74 26 15
87 46 11 356.4 32.4 74 26 17
88 42 12 401.28 33.44 76 24 16
89 37 12 405.84 33.82 73 27 15
90 42 9 307.8 34.2 74 26 16
91 44 10 315 31.5 73 27 17
92 41 11 340.34 30.94 74 26 16
93 39 9 304.38 33.82 76 24 17
94 45 11 360.36 32.76 71 29 17
95 45 9 272.34 30.26 71 29 15
96 44 10 336.7 33.67 78 22 16
97 38 10 342 34.2 80 20 16
98 45 10 325.6 32.56 73 27 15
99 38 11 366.3 33.3 77 23 17
100 37 10 338.2 33.82 77 23 15
101 38 9 277.2 30.8 77 23 16
102 43 11 356.4 32.4 72 28 15
103 43 12 410.4 34.2 81 19 15
104 43 9 296.37 32.93 75 25 15
105 40 10 338.2 33.82 71 29 17
106 45 9 280.35 31.15 76 24 16
107 37 12 373.8 31.15 72 28 15
108 40 12 369.6 30.8 76 24 16
109 42 10 306 30.6 78 22 17
110 42 10 324 32.4 71 29 17
111 45 12 390.72 32.56 73 27 16
112 39 9 277.2 30.8 80 20 17
113 39 10 316.8 31.68 80 20 17
114 37 11 348.48 31.68 76 24 15
115 46 11 376.2 34.2 72 28 16
116 40 9 280.35 31.15 78 22 15
117 45 9 293.04 32.56 82 18 15
118 42 12 388.8 32.4 80 20 15
119 44 9 291.6 32.4 78 22 16
120 43 12 390.72 32.56 82 18 17
121 39 9 299.7 33.3 72 28 17
122 43 12 382.2 31.85 79 21 16
123 38 12 378 31.5 72 28 17
124 39 10 308 30.8 78 22 16
125 45 10 325.6 32.56 71 29 16
126 38 12 371.28 30.94 81 19 16
127 45 11 358.16 32.56 80 20 16
128 44 11 342.65 31.15 75 25 16
129 44 12 363.12 30.26 79 21 17
130 37 12 399.6 33.3 76 24 16
131 37 10 316.8 31.68 71 29 17
132 42 10 345.8 34.58 82 18 15
133 42 10 325.6 32.56 82 18 16
134 42 12 363.12 30.26 74 26 17
135 41 11 332.86 30.26 79 21 15
136 43 11 338.8 30.8 73 27 17
137 43 10 333 33.3 79 21 17
138 39 12 401.28 33.44 81 19 16
139 43 10 345.8 34.58 72 28 15
140 44 12 404.04 33.67 76 24 15
141 40 11 360.36 32.76 82 18 17
142 43 9 288.36 32.04 75 25 17
143 39 10 324 32.4 74 26 16
144 44 12 401.28 33.44 73 27 17
145 42 11 350.35 31.85 76 24 15
146 45 11 367.84 33.44 78 22 16
147 41 12 371.28 30.94 81 19 16
148 43 9 269.28 29.92 72 28 17
149 45 10 306 30.6 81 19 15
150 45 9 288.36 32.04 75 25 16
151 43 10 320.4 32.04 71 29 15
152 45 11 346.5 31.5 76 24 15
153 38 9 283.5 31.5 73 27 17
154 42 11 360.36 32.76 73 27 15
155 42 9 272.34 30.26 73 27 16
156 39 12 380.16 31.68 73 27 16
157 38 12 395.16 32.93 78 22 15
158 42 11 356.4 32.4 72 28 17
159 41 10 311.5 31.15 77 23 E38-E45 17
160 42 11 352.44 32.04 72 28 32.12 16 Tune occurred here so LTFT Changed
161 81 11 276.76 25.16 77 23 FINALLY 5 27
162 75 9 263.07 29.23 73 27 TUNED 4 27
163 83 11 314.16 28.56 72 28 FOR 5 26
164 70 11 345.95 31.45 81 19 E85 3 27
165 81 12 372.96 31.08 80 20 3 27
166 71 11 301.18 27.38 78 22 4 25
167 78 9 259.74 28.86 72 28 5 23
168 76 11 288.75 26.25 72 28 4 23
169 83 11 277.2 25.2 74 26 3 26
170 79 9 275.4 30.6 80 20 3 26
171 72 10 277.5 27.75 73 27 5 25
172 73 10 282.2 28.22 76 24 4 27
173 69 12 369.36 30.78 73 27 3 26
174 76 10 277.5 27.75 72 28 3 27
175 77 9 272.16 30.24 76 24 3 23
176 78 11 324.72 29.52 74 26 3 23
177 81 9 249.48 27.72 82 18 5 25
178 81 12 341.88 28.49 78 22 4 26
179 78 12 323.4 26.95 78 22 3 27
180 69 10 294 29.4 80 20 4 25
181 79 10 287 28.7 79 21 5 24
182 81 12 346.56 28.88 80 20 5 26
183 80 9 259.92 28.88 75 25 4 25
184 73 10 259 25.9 78 22 3 25
185 72 9 259.74 28.86 72 28 3 23
186 83 12 369.36 30.78 73 27 3 23
187 72 11 308.88 28.08 78 22 5 26
188 71 10 298.8 29.88 78 22 4 26
189 79 9 263.07 29.23 71 29 4 23
190 75 12 333 27.75 80 20 5 27
191 83 9 269.73 29.97 80 20 4 23
192 77 11 285.12 25.92 78 22 5 23
193 81 9 243 27 77 23 5 25
194 72 10 273 27.3 74 26 5 23
195 82 12 301.92 25.16 72 28 4 25
196 75 11 332.64 30.24 78 22 3 24
197 79 11 324.72 29.52 74 26 5 24
198 74 12 337.44 28.12 71 29 3 27
199 75 12 318.24 26.52 78 22 E85 4 26
200 83 10 283.5 28.35 78 22 28.48 3 25

So conclusions from the test say that no ethanol has not harmed my vehicle its still purring like a kitten and still running on it and have been running on it since the mileage indicated prior to now 398,776 miles :slight_smile: No major breakdowns. Maybe ill get a boroscope and take pics of the cylinders one day :slight_smile: Last time I removed the head and valve cover for kicks and giggles and because I wanted to prematurely replace the gaskets of both. The cylinders were extremely clean to my surprise. Ethanol is very clean burning. Project farm has done some interesting testing too and one with a see through engine… Worth the watch!

Reason for damage seen in video. Ethanol absolutely eats felt and cellulosic based gaskets such as card board based gaskets. Be mindful of this issue

I actually got my lawn mower to run on it by drilling the jets out and now it runs E85. Somethings ive noticed running it in cars and lawn mowers is the smell of hand sanitizer when the exhaust is a bit rich… Makes me feel good and not like im about to keel over and die.

Production is the problem

Current yields are around 41-44 percent. The problem with this is if we compare this to in terms of GPE or Gasoline Production Equivalent its closer 27 to 34 percent from source to product using the corn to ethanol methods.

This can be changed here is a charge from wikipedia thats very accurate.

If you do the math you see that the methods that are worth it are poplar and above. There is a ton of research into creating cellulose ethanol based production where we ferment directly from the plant matter instead of first having to extract the sugar which is only really effective with sugar beets and sugar cane. The grasses can grow in the desert regions of the west without man made irrigation. This is why its exciting research and I hope to see it develop. This might be a great fuel to reduce our overall lifecycle emissions and since its so clean burning it will likely improve car longevity and possibly alleviate the carbon issue on intake valves with direction injection.

There are other alcohols.

In the future I may right about them as being possible biofuels.

Pentanol: A five carbon alcohol part of the OH Functional sub group of amyl alcohols. It has an energy density between gasoline and diesel and would improve MPG if used. It also hase a consistency closer to that of kerosene due to being a fusel oil. However it can be spark ignited and has a decent AKI.

Butanol: A four carbon alcohol of the OH functional sub group Butyl contains roughly 1-3 percent less energy than gasoline.

Propanol: A 3 carbon alcohol with a energy content between ethanol and butanol. Also very clean burning.

All of which can be fermented from cellulose and can also by means of a catalyst be converted into from ethanol. They are equally worth their weight in gold in terms of research.

Potentional bio or synthetic gasolines

Possibly good fuels. Not enough research data to be conclusive

Cleaner Gasolines

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogasoline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_fuel

Final message

This post is probably not as grand as I dreamed. My time is limited but I wanted to share some knowledge. Ive decided to leave the rest of the data to be exposed by questions and I will gladly answer them. SO even if your not a gear head or you are I hope you learned something about ethanol today. If anything you can stop spreading misinformation. This fuel is a fantastic fuel and is worth its extra cost to develop. After all its not like gasoline wasnt equally expensive to develop up to the point its at now. Heck we had what 80 years or more to get that right and weve barely been thoroughly researching ethanol since 25-30 years ago. We can figure it out! The earth matters not just for us but for our children. Using our resources to figure out how to improve our impact should never be a bad thing but it also shouldnt come at an expense of the american people like Emissions Testing and Diesel emissions regulations have become for people not only in costly repairs but forced obsolescence. More on this in another post. Let me know if you liked this and as always im open to questions below! I know this post will need some cleaning up. I just rather not keep it in my inbox in drafting. People can know now :slight_smile:

POST TWO TOPIC – Biodiesel

A great fuel made from used oils and waste products

Other Resources (Growing)

List

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/01/study-compares.html

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2013/april/cost-saving-measure-to-upgrade-ethanol-to-butanol-a-better-alternative-to-gasoline.html

https://www.corvetteonline.com/news/the-benefits-of-e85-as-a-power-adder/

http://market-news24.com/75353/global-ethanol-market-2019-archerdanielsmidland-poetbiorefining-valero-greenplains-flinthillsresources-pacificethanol/

https://biofuels-news.com/news/trump-forced-to-act-on-biofuels-policies-after-growing-pressure-from-farmers/

http://ethanolproducer.com/articles/16407/opinion-adding-e15-into-the-mix-one-retailerundefineds-experience

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Biofuels/Why-The-Midwest-Should-Protect-The-Ethanol-Market.html

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/06/20190601-e15.html

Various Wikipedia sources used and read during the long investigation:

“Towards Sustainable Production and Use of Resources: Assessing Bio fuels” (PDF). United Nations Environment Programme. 16 October 2009. Archived from the original (PDF) on 22 November 2009. Retrieved 24 October 2009.
Renewable Fuels Association (6 March 2012). “Acelerating Industry Innovation – 2012 Ethanol Industry Outlook” (PDF).

Renewable Fuels Association. Archived from the original (PDF) on 14 May 2012. Retrieved 18 March 2012. See pp. 3, 8, 10 22 and 23 .
AMIS Market Monitor No. 48 – May 2017, http://www.amis-outlook.org/fileadmin/user_upload/amis/docs/Market_monitor/AMIS_Market_Monitor_Issue_47.pdf

“Gasoline Gallon Equivalent (GGE) Definition”. energy.gov. Retrieved 12 October 2011.

“Alternative Fuels Data Center – Fuel Properties Comparison” (PDF). Alternative Fuels Data Center . 29 October 2014.

“The Renewable Path to Energy Security” (PDF). Images1.americanprogress.org. Retrieved 20 January 2015.

“Deforestation diesel – the madness of biofuel” (PDF). Retrieved 27 August 2011.
Youngquist, W. Geodestinies , National Book Company, Portland, Oregon, p.499

“The dirty truth about biofuels”. Oilcrash.com. 14 March 2005. Retrieved 27 August 2011.
Kinver, Mark (18 September 2006). “Biofuels look to the next generation”. BBC News . Retrieved 27 August 2011.
O. R. Inderwildi; D. A. King (2009). “Quo Vadis Biofuels”. Energy & Environmental Science . 2 (4): 343.

doi:10.1039/b822951c.

“Industrial & Environmental” (PDF). Bio.org. Archived from the original (PDF) on 12 February 2006. Retrieved 20 January 2015.

“World Energy Outlook 2006” (PDF). Worldenergyoutlook.org. Archived from the original (PDF) on 28 September 2007. Retrieved 20 January 2015.

“World Fuel Ethanol Analysis and Outlook” (PDF). Meti.go.jp. Archived from the original (PDF) on 28 March 2016. Retrieved 20 January 2015.

“(grainscouncil.com, Biofuels_study 268 kB pdf, footnote, p 6)” (PDF). 18 July 2008. Archived from the original (PDF) on 18 July 2008. Retrieved 27 August 2011.
[1] Archived 9 May 2008 at the Wayback Machine
Martin LaMonica (12 June 2008). “Algae farm in Mexico to produce ethanol in '09”. News.cnet.com. Retrieved 27 August 2011.

“New Enzyme for More Efficient Corn Ethanol Production”. Green Car Congress. 30 June 2005. Retrieved 14 January 2008.

“Ethanol”. University of Illinois Extension . Retrieved 10 July 2017.
Volpato Filho, Orlando (September 2008). Gasoline C made with Hydrous Ethanol . XVI SIMEA 2008 - Simpósio Internacional de Engenharia Automotiva. Sao Paolo. Retrieved 10 July 2017.

“Modern Corn Ethanol plant description” (PDF).
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doi:10.1021/acs.energyfuels.6b01591. ISSN 0887-0624.
W. Horn and F. Krupp. Earth: The Sequel: The Race to Reinvent Energy and Stop Global Warming. 2006, 85
This is shown for 25 °C (77 °F) in a gasoline-ethanol-water phase diagram, Fig 13 of Päivi Aakko; Nils-Olof Nylund. “Technical View on Biofuels for Transportation – Focus on Ethanol End-Use Aspects” (PDF). Archived from the original (PDF) on 3 December 2007. Retrieved 14 January 2008.

“Water Phase Separation in Oxygenated Gasoline” (PDF). Epa.gov. Archived from the original (PDF) on 9 February 2015. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
“Home Mini-Refinery Makes Ethanol & Biodiesel Simultaneously”. Gas2.0. 4 November 2008. Retrieved 4 November 2008.

“Micro Fueler Is First Ethanol Kit for Brewing Backyard Biofuels on the Cheap”. PopularMechanics. 8 May 2008. Archived from the original on 9 May 2008. Retrieved 8 May 2008.

“Alternative Fuels Data Center: Ethanol”. Afdc.energy.gov. Retrieved 20 January 2015.

“U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)”. Archived from the original (PDF) on 21 August 2008. Retrieved 2016-02-09.

“Ethanol in Petrol”. Royal Automobile Association of South Australia. February 2004. Archived from the original on 9 June 2007. Retrieved 29 April 2007.

“EPA Info”. US EPA. 7 March 2011. Archived from the original on 25 June 2009. Retrieved 27 August 2011.
J. Goettemoeller; A. Goettemoeller (2007). Sustainable Ethanol: Biofuels, Biorefineries, Cellulosic Biomass, Flex-Fuel Vehicles, and Sustainable Farming for Energy Independence . Prairie Oak Publishing, Maryville, Missouri. p. 42. ISBN 978-0-9786293-0-4.

“EPA Mileage”. Fueleconomy.gov. Retrieved 27 August 2011.
“Changes in Gasoline IV, sponsored by Renewable Fuels Foundation” (PDF). Archived from the original (PDF) on 2 August 2012. Retrieved 27 August 2011.
Roman M. Balabin; et al. (2007). “Molar enthalpy of vaporization of ethanol–gasoline mixtures and their colloid state”. Fuel . 86 (3): 323. doi:10.1016/j.fuel.2006.08.008.

“Sustainable biofuels: prospects and challenges”. The Royal Society. January 2008. Archived from the original (PDF) on 5 October 2008. Retrieved 27 September 2008. Policy document 01/08. See 4.3.1 Vapour pressure and bioethanol and Figure 4.3 for the relation between ethanol content and vapor pressure.
Ethanol Promotion; Information Council (27 February 2007). “When is E85 not 85 percent ethanol? When it’s E70 with an E85 sticker on it”. AutoblogGreen. Retrieved 24 August 2008.

“Ethanol fuel and cars”. Interesting Energy Facts. 23 September 2008. Retrieved 23 September 2008.
Vägverket (Swedish Road Administration) (30 May 2007).

“Swedish comments on Euro 5/6 comitology version 4, 30 May 2007: Cold Temperature Tests For Flex Fuel Vehicles” (PDF). ec.europa.eu . European Commission. Archived from the original (PDF) on 3 October 2008. Retrieved 23 September 2008.

“Here comes the ‘Flex’ vehicles third generation” (PDF). Revista Brasileira de BioEnergia (in Portuguese and English). August 2008. Archived from the original (PDF) on 3 October 2008. Retrieved 23 September 2008. Ano 2, No. 3 (every article is presented in both English and Portuguese)
Agência Estado (10 June 2008).

doi:

10.11606/D.86.2007.tde-07052008-115336. Retrieved 5 October 2008. PhD Dissertation Thesis, pp. 81–82

“2011 Ethanol Industry Outlook: Building Bridges to a More Sustainable Future” (PDF). Renewable Fuels Association. 2011. Archived from the original (PDF) on 28 September 2011. Retrieved 30 April 2011. See pages 2–3, 10–11, 19–20, and 26–27 .
Matthew L. Wald (13 October 2010).

“A Bit More Ethanol in the Gas Tank”.

The New York Times* . Retrieved 14 October 2010.
Fred Meier (13 October 2010).

“EPA allows 15% ethanol in gasoline, but only for late-model cars”. USA Today . Retrieved 14 October 2010.
[2] Scania PRESSInfo, 21 May 2007

Archived 20 March 2009 at the

Wayback Machine

“Ethanol Producer Magazine – The Latest News and Data About Ethanol Production”. Ethanolproducer.com. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
Cohn, D.R.; Bromberg, L.; Heywood, J.B. (20 April 2005),

“Direct Injection Ethanol Boosted Gasoline Engines: Biofuel Leveraging for Cost Effective Reduction of Oil Dependence and CO2 Emissions. MIT Report PSFC/JA-06-16” (PDF), MIT Energy Initiative , archived from the original (PDF) on 2 June 2013, retrieved 23 November 2014 Stokes, J.; Lake, T. H.; Osborne, R. J. (16 October 2000).

“A Gasoline Engine Concept for Improved Fuel Economy -The Lean Boost System”. SAE Paper 2001-01-2901 . SAE Technical Paper Series. 1 . Sae.org.

doi:10.4271/2000-01-2902. Retrieved 27 August 2011.
M. Brusstar; M. Bakenhus.

“Economical, High-Efficiency Engine Technologies for Alcohol Fuels” (PDF). U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. Retrieved 14 January 2008.
Voelcker, John (14 June 2016).

“Nissan takes a different approach to fuel cells: ethanol”. Green Car Reports . Retrieved 16 June 2016.
F.O. Lichts.

“Industry Statistics: 2010 World Fuel Ethanol Production”. Renewable Fuels Association. Retrieved 30 April 2011.

“2009 Global Ethanol Production (Million Gallons)” (PDF). F.O. Licht, cited in Renewable Fuels Association, Ethanol Industry Overlook 2010, pp. 2 and 22. 2010. Archived from the original (PDF) on 18 July 2011. Retrieved 12 February 2011.
F.O. Licht. “2007 and 2008 World Fuel Ethanol Production”. Renewable Fuels Association. Archived from the original on 8 April 2008. Retrieved 17 April 2010.

Joel K. Bourne, Jr. “Biofuels”. Ngm.nationalgeographic.vom. Retrieved 20 January 2015.
[3] Archived 8 September 2015 at the Wayback Machine

“01.26.2006 - Ethanol can replace gasoline with significant energy savings, comparable impact on greenhouse gases”. Berkeley.edu. Retrieved 20 January 2015.

“oregon.gov, biomass forum”. Oregon.gov. 27 March 2009. Archived from the original on 28 August 2011. Retrieved 27 August 2011.
M. Wang; C. Saricks; D. Santini. “Effects of Fuel Ethanol Use on Fuel-Cycle Energy and Greenhouse Gas Emissions” (PDF). Argonne National Laboratory. Retrieved 7 July 2009.
M. Wang. “Energy and Greenhouse Gas Emissions Effects of Fuel Ethanol” (PDF). Retrieved 7 July 2009.
Davidson, Keay (18 April 2007). “Study warns of health risk from ethanol”. San Francisco Chronicle . Retrieved 7 July 2009.

“Clearing the air on ethanol”. Environmental Science & Technology. 18 April 2007. Archived from the original on 27 October 2008. Retrieved 14 January 2008.
M. Z. Jacobson (14 March 2007). “Effects of Ethanol (E85) vs. Gasoline Vehicles on Cancer and Mortality in the United States”. ACS Publications. Retrieved 14 January 2008.
Nguyen, H. (2001). “Atmospheric alcohols and aldehydes concentrations measured in Osaka, Japan and in Sao Paulo, Brazil”. Atmospheric Environment . 35 (18): 3075–3083.

doi:10.1016/S1352-2310(01)00136-4.
“Part One” (PDF). Archived from the original (PDF) on 24 November 2016. Retrieved 27 August 2011.
“Bioethanol Production and Use Creating Markets for Renewable Energy Technologies” (PDF). eubia.org . EU, RES Technology Marketing Campaign, European Biomass Industry Association EUBIA. 2007. Archived from the original (PDF) on 28 November 2007.

“Biofuels Deemed a Greenhouse Threat”. The New York Times . Retrieved 20 January 2015.
Joseph Fargione (29 February 2008). “Land Clearing and the Biofuel Carbon Debt”. Science . 319 (5867): 1235–1238. doi:10.1126/science.1152747. PMID 18258862.
D. Morrison (18 September 2006). “Ethanol fuel presents a corn-undrum”. University of Minnesota. Archived from the original on 22 September 2007. Retrieved 14 January 2008.
“Lula calls for ethanol investment”. BBC. 4 June 2007. Retrieved 14 January 2008.

“Sweet sorghum: A Water Saving BioEnergy Crop” (PDF). International Crops Research Institute for the SemiArid Tropics. Retrieved 14 January 2008.
“RP INVESTOR TO PUT UP PIONEERING SWEET SORGHUM ETHANOL PLANT”. Manila Bulletin. 25 October 2006. Archived from the original on 12 February 2008. Retrieved 14 January 2008.
G. C. Rains; J. S. Cundiff; G. E. Welbaum (12 September 1997).

“Sweet Sorghum for a Piedmont Ethanol Industry”.
“ICRISAT develops sweet sorghum for ethanol production”. 12 August 2004. Archived from the original on 15 December 2007.
“Energy Security” (PDF). Ethanol.org. Archived from the original (PDF) on 23 April 2012.
M. Turon (25 November 1998). Ethanol as Fuel: An Environmental and Economic Analysis . U.C. Berkeley, Chemical Engineering.

“Ethanol Can Contribute to Energy and Environmental Goals” (PDF). Ethanol.org. Archived from the original (PDF) on 23 April 2012.

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“Ethanol Lowers Gas Prices 29–40 Cents Per Gallon”. Renewableenergyworld.com.

“ALMS Corvettes going green with E85 fuel in 2008 - USATODAY.com”. Usatoday30.usatoday.com.
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Jim Lane (1 August 2013). “INEOS Bio produces cellulosic ethanol from waste, at commercial scale – print-friendly”. Biofuels Digest. Retrieved 15 June 2014.
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“Air Pollution Rules Relaxed for U.S. Ethanol Producers”. Environmental News Service. 12 April 2007. Retrieved 26 June 2009.

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Reputable Studies Section

Sources

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167779907000492

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960852409015119

https://www.osti.gov/biblio/1218382

https://www.pnas.org/content/105/2/464.short

http://www.ijabe.org/index.php/ijabe/article/view/168

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/biot.200600067

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0961953407000396

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4419-7145-6_13

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S036054421300683X

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S016777990600254X

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg2336

https://www.pnas.org/content/106/5/1368.short

https://ojs.cnr.ncsu.edu/index.php/BioRes/article/view/BioRes_03_2_0452_Dawson_B_Porous_Silica_Poplar

https://www.osti.gov/biblio/6396491

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/251/4999/1318

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/311/5760/506

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/bbb.269

https://www.nature.com/articles/nbt0108-8

https://www.nature.com/news/cellulosic-ethanol-fights-for-life-1.14856

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960852407007730

11 Likes

Just Do It Challenge: Revival Edition
L1's Garage
#2

Reserved

(Possible additions to this post maybe added here)
One such potential discussion is tuning for big power. This is something I haven’t done to my old 4 banging focus. As much as I’d like to send a rod flying up mt Ogden :joy: today is not the day . Also Let me know if you guys want this section to turn into a how to distill ethanol aka how to distill moonshine section. I do not endorse nor encourage tax evasive behavior. If you decide to distill ethanol you accept the liabilities of your own decision making

Questions ive gotten asks here, in PMs, and other forums

Running lean gets really got and causes damage?

Project farm did small engine tests and used a thermal camera to prove it didnt get hotter than gasoline. Ethanol also cools the charge of air coming into to levels far lower than gasoline which has a cooling effect on the engine. Running more fuel which you have to with ethanol also further benefits this effect negating the lean burn heat.

EGTs are a concern they never passed 1550 F . Modern ceramic cat’s circa 1995+ can handle up to 2000 or more without melting now … heck magna flow rates there to 2200 F which is funny because to get that high you would need an OPEN flame

It can effect carb engines:

Carbs are tuneable if you tune to ethanol instead of leaving it lean your engine wont run hot. Problem solved.

There are some materials like plastics that can be effected:

Plastics really dont have many issues at all. Theres a huge wiki table on this somewhere from peoples independent testing. The rubber I tested was an oring off an inject, a gasket off a carb, and a fuel line. So ive already done that but im up to testing more plastics to prove everything wrong. Make a list we could do it and add it to the post :slight_smile: The lies have been perpetuated for so long and even made political that people really do believe them now. Its time for non government studies on it that are by trusted agencies

Some materials dont like it. here is a table Adubs showed me. Thanks dude this is a good resource from cole palmer chemicals

Materials Table
ABS plastic B1 - Good
Acetal (Delrin®) A1 - Excellent
Aluminum B - Good
Brass A - Excellent
Bronze A - Excellent
Buna N (Nitrile) C - Fair
Carbon graphite A - Excellent
Carbon Steel B - Good
Carpenter 20 A - Excellent
Cast iron B - Good
Ceramic Al203 A - Excellent
Ceramic magnet N/A
ChemRaz (FFKM) A - Excellent
Copper A - Excellent
CPVC B - Good
EPDM A - Excellent
Epoxy A2 - Excellent
Fluorocarbon (FKM) B - Good
Hastelloy-C® A - Excellent
Hypalon® A - Excellent
Hytrel® N/A
Kalrez A - Excellent
Kel-F® A - Excellent
LDPE B - Good
Natural rubber A - Excellent
Neoprene A - Excellent
NORYL® A1 - Excellent
Nylon A1 - Excellent
Polycarbonate B2 - Good
Polyetherether Ketone (PEEK) A - Excellent
Polypropylene A - Excellent
Polyurethane D - Poor
PPS (Ryton®) N/A
PTFE A - Excellent
PVC C - Fair
PVDF (Kynar®) N/A
Silicone B - Good
stainless steel - 304 A - Excellent
stainless steel - 316 A - Excellent
Titanium A - Excellent
Tygon® C - Fair
Viton® A - Excellent

Also good discussion on varying materials.

What was your long term fuel trim. How far off was it?

10 percent to 12.5 percent enriched on average. Good idea let me grab the data. When I hit E57 it enriched to nearly its maximum which is 23 percent however after the tune the same bosch injectors were the exact same part numbers for the FFV version of the engine… So when we tuned it they did just fine in fact the I intentionally chose them to run 12:1 stoich instead of 9.6:1 which is ideal. I like lean and never have too many issues. Ethanol cools the charge entering the engine thereby cooling the engine down from the increased heat.

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pinned #3
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#4

Damn good work, my dude.

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#5

I believe BMW are actually injecting water into the cylinders during high performance situations in the M4 GTS.

I can’t imagine them doing this if it was a danger to the engine, considering these are intended to run even harder than a to the shops and back daily driver. So yeah can’t be that bad, but I could be easily conflating something that does not make sense.


Just some corrections:

Ethanol in its pure form can contain up to 5 percent water hence E95 and not phase separate.

sugar beets and sugar cane.

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#6

W-wow tables, tables as fuck

How long did this take you?

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#7

Thank you it was 2 am :rofl:

2 weeks of PM drafting

Tables were easy I spat the data out of torque directly into a CSV and cut paste

I used to commute 200 miles or more a day. I used to drive a ton of long trips in the west etc…

Well I mean yes and no this guy provides a good talk

It can prevent issues on the valves but this would have to be a very well regulated system to prevent damage

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#8

Thanks man I hid the tables using hide details I think its better this way

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#9

Thanks, looking forward to the BioDiesel one always been interested in that stuff.

This was interesting but a little foreign to me in Europe as we currently don’t use ethanol fuels.

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#10

Id say with anything use caution. If your ECU doesnt adjust like me there are cases where ethanol can cause damage. However with proper monitoring and verification that your seeing decent adjustment of ignition advances and fuel trim then your probably fine

I would recommend you tune the vehicle though before running higher levels. A tune will result in far less potential for damage

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#11

Related

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#12

Thanks I love that dude… great explanations

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#13

it should be noted that in a gasoline engine you should run the lowest octane that does not cause knock. this is very hard to tell in modern engines as knock sensors tell the computer to dial back things like ignition timing to stop the knock. consult your owners manual for octane info.

that said, here in the US often the octane is 1-2 points lower than what is labeled on the pump.

i usually dont care in my old truck (as it doesnt knock even on 85 octane) , and my motorcycle gets midgrade fuel (labeled 88-90 octane, depending on the station).

here is a neat fact:
the higher the octane (over the manufacturers spec), the less power in a stock engine.

you need to modify the engine to take advantage of the slower burning (and faster evaporating) high octane fuel. Such as raising the compression ratio, adding a turbo/supercharger (effectively raising the compression) , advancing ignition timing, and other high performance mods.

so use the lowest octane as listed in your owners manual.

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#14

Well yes your correct but ethanol and methanol burn faster than gasoline. Ever seen the bottle experiment. Gas will burn the bottle because it’s slow burning. Methanol and Ethanol won’t. They have a high octane but when they light off the burn ridiculously fast. This is part of what makes them suitable for bigger power applications in particular.

Depends on the stock engine but yes this is correct for low compression ratio (less than 9.5:1) naturally aspirated engines.

However this does not apply to 9.8:1 and greater compression ratio due to timing being able to be adjusted by the ECU to burn it better. It depends a ton on the engine architecture. Once we throw turbos at the mix like the Ecoboost then yeah it really does run better and make more power on 91 octane stock vs the 87 called for. This has been a proven concept on Dino’s and it’s just because of the tendency for the engines to not. Like my engine has a 10.1:1 compression ratio. I can view the knock sensor data … it does knock lightly on 87 where as midgrade she’s fine and doesn’t retard timing and I do get slightly better fuel economy. Back in the day 10:1 would require the premium fuel of the era aka 89-91 octane … back when everything was 2 ticks lower… it’s just a matter of thermodynamics of compression at that point. It’s amazing we can make what is considered high compression for gasoline run on regular fuel nowdays… I still think it would be wiser if we moved to higher octane fuel and designed the engines to take advantage of it. That would make them more thermodynamically efficient

It’s all in engine architecture but yes I don’t recommend running higher octane more expensive premium fuel unless your engine calls for it. That said if you want to experiment with ethanol just read what your doing and know your engine and then have fun.

I think part of the reason my little 4 banger really handled it well is due to ceramic coated exhaust chamber and ports… probably why I never saw any issue with heat. Solid little design by ford and Mazda.

Yup and that’s the fun shit how do we get more of our generation into cars… feel like we joined our ancestors as a dying breed

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#16

Sort of skeptical that 100% ethanol will ever take off, and honestly, I hope it doesn’t. The amount of additional farmland alone that would be needed to produce the plants which would then be converted into fuel would be astronomical.

Combustion is not an efficient means of kinetic or electrical energy production. Let’s be INCREDIBLY OPTIMISTIC, and say that a combustion engine can be 50% efficient at producing kinetic or electrical energy (it’s much closer to 25% for most cases). 50% of the energy is fucking gone due to heat, light, sound, and other losses. That’s horrible, and we need to begin using more efficient means of energy production, that IS NOT COMBUSTION.

Let combustion fucking die already.

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#17

Not sure about BMW doing it, but I’ve seen it done on custom Supra. Iirc it’s at around 850C water is forcibly split into hydrogen and oxygen. Same principle as the solar heating plants with mirrors in Sahara and Spain

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#18

Ehh sort of it depends on the method. As I discussed and posted a chart of … if we use switch grasses which cna grow in our western deserts which largely are unihabitable and not farm land for food… we could not only harvest it and turn it into fuel but we can also use it to grow cows. Multiple purposes so i can see ways we can be independent as a country energy wise and I definitely encourage us first us made solutions…

We should take this into the garage this is an interesting discussion where I both disagree and agree at the same time :wink:

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#19

Yup and it’s not that it splits into hydrogen and oxygen. It’s that the water absorbs a ton of energy in the form of heat. This cools the charge and allows for cooler denser and there for more air to enter the chamber which means more fuel and translates to more power and more efficiency

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#20

Sorry, there was a lot, so I read a few paragraphs on and off. Not sure if you sourced any of what I’m about to talk about, but I’d imagine that turning deserts into farmland would also be very inefficient and improbable, simply based on the fact that transporting electricity, water, and fertilizer will be incredibly costly, hence why in pretty much every country worldwide, they opt to cut/burn forests, instead of planting there.

The scientific calculations for the inefficiency of combustion is already known and have been for a long time (ex. car engines really haven’t improved in efficiency SIGNIFICANTLY in a a very, very long time. Most improvements from gas mileage come from aerodynamics and weight), however, I’m curious about what your rebutable would be.

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L1's Garage
#21

That was the thing about these grasses. They already grow there in the deserts without water. Heck they are all around the sagebrush out here… it would just be about making a proper field… water isn’t a problem because they germinate in the early spring and grow stupid tall before even turning brown. Plenty of material to work with and that’s why those researchers were optimistic because it would not require the pumping of water unlike the other sources. Unfortunately the thing is conservationalist may get worried because the grass is already invasive but what better way to get rid of invasive species than to throw it in our fuel tanks! Haha it will take time if and when they figure it out that would be pretty fricken cool to see them farming what used to be extremely unproductive land. The coolest part would be how much CO2 it sucks out of the atmosphere in the process of growing those grasses for fuel (of course offset for the CO2 of the cars and harvesting) it would still come out on top :slight_smile:

You are however correct. The current methods of production from corn are absolutely not the best… ideally 37-51 percent reduction in life cycle emissions which is good but we can do way better

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